Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:35:15 -0500 From: Tim Tsai <tim@futuresouth.com> To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Cc: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>, dennis@etinc.com, tim@futuresouth.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: if_de.c ???? Message-ID: <19970506223515.39053@shell.futuresouth.com> In-Reply-To: <199705070108.KAA15806@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Wed, May 07, 1997 at 10:38:15AM %2B0930 References: <Pine.NEB.3.95.970506130427.1963J-100000@mail.cdsnet.net> <199705070108.KAA15806@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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On Wed, May 07, 1997 at 10:38:15AM +0930, Michael Smith wrote: >It is interesting to note amongst all this bitching and whining about >the "poor" support for 'de' cards that there has been almost nobody >offering any help or support. It's all been "where's my &^%$&^$ >de driver right *&^%*&^%*& now". Michael, I don't think this is fair. If you look at the mailing list archives I have publicly offered to pay somebody to support 21140-AC based cards. I also sent mail directly to one of the core members and never got a reply. Also, on any system that wishes to have mass end users (and I presume this is one of FreeBSD's goals), there are users that will not have much, if anything, to contribute back. Ultimately, it's how well you support these users that determines the success. Now let's look at the paths I've taken in the past four months: - Immediately deciding on FreeBSD, I scouraged through the mailing lists and the web page and found that DEC based NIC's are reliable and great price for the performance. So we ordered half a dozen or so cards. - Installed 2.1.6. Found that these network cards doesn't work. Read on the maling list that this will be supported soon, so we ordered a bunch of NE2000 clones to tie us over until the support is added. - Overtime, we've upgraded to 2.1.7, 2.2-GAMMA, 2.2-RELEASE, 2.2-STABLE, and now 3.0 on some of the machines. The situation is the same each time. The NetBSD de code was not incorporated on each release. Between tracking the NetBSD changes and the FreeBSD releases breaking the NetBSD code each time, we've never successfully run the de code on all our machines. I also never felt confident that this code would work reliably and correctly (hey, I am no kernel hacker), so I always ended up with the trusty old NE2000. - Four months later, I am finding out that the de cards will never perform as well as the Intel cards, and not as well supported either. Am I bitter about this? Absolutely not. Sometimes very frustrating, yes! We take this as part of the experience. I am sure the core members had intended to support de all along, but one thing or another happened to prevent this from happening. I can understand that - shit happens. I don't expect any better from any other OS. The only time I've seriously considered dropping FreeBSD (and did, on our backup machine) was because the SCSI changer support keep breaking between releases. Now that FreeBSD 2.2/3.X supports chio directly, we are all FreeBSD again. We've also decided to forget about the de cards and just buy Intel boards. I understand that work is in progress or has completed on the de port, but I don't think it matters given the positions DG and some others has already taken. *I* want the best supported hardware. If that means dumping the de cards and buy Intel's so be it. They're cheap enough for me to be generous. Now, if somebody tells me that our 4G hard drives or Pentium Pro CPU's are not very well supported... :-) > > And so I'll start purchasing intel cards, and 8 months from now, the > > Novell NE2000 cards will be the hot card to have. > > Or, you can help with the 'de' cards and keep your inventory. I really don't see why anybody would do this, when DG and others have said that Intel boards are the way to go. It'd be nice if somebody simply put on the hardware list, that 21140-AC cards are not well supported and should be avoided. It would prevent a lot of headaches. Sorry to be so long winded. I think the FreeBSD developers have done a fine job and have done what they could with the limited resources. That said, it all depends on where FreeBSD wants to go. I know that a lot of people, given our own experience, would have given up and gone to Linux/etc. already. Maybe that's what the FreeBSD community wants. Maybe not. You tell me. Tim, IMHO, of course.
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