From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 27 20:09:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14358 for freebsd-current-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14352 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA28376; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:39:37 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980628123937.G28055@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:39:37 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Matthew Thyer , Mike Smith Cc: Matthew Thyer , Terry Lambert , Jonathan Lemon , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 'fatal trap 12' on boot (smp and up) References: <199806270151.SAA09466@antipodes.cdrom.com> <35959EE1.197BE9D5@camtech.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35959EE1.197BE9D5@camtech.net.au>; from Matthew Thyer on Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 11:09:45AM +0930 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 28 June 1998 at 11:09:45 +0930, Matthew Thyer wrote: > Mike Smith wrote: >> Matthew Thyer wrote: >>> So there is no way of booting cleanly using a version of DOS from >>> Windows 98 (and beyond probably). Therefore FreeBSD should not >>> be relying on these vectors being unmodified. >> >> I'm sorry, but this conclusion is fallacious. You might just as easily >> suggest that, eg. Windows NT should not rely on these vectors being >> unmodified (it does). >> >>> Soon no one will have Windows 95 or earlier so its going to be >>> pretty hard to install FreeBSD from the CD-ROM. >> >> Actually, all you droids will be running Windows 98 on "PC-98" machines >> (systems certified for Windows 98), all of which are required to >> support the El Torito CDROM boot standard. Naturally, the FreeBSD >> CDROMs are all bootable. >> >>> I'm sorry Mike but your answer "boot from a floppy" wont be any >>> good when everyones floppies have been formatted with Windows 98! >> >> Since the formatter doesn't matter a damn, and since the floppy I was >> referring to is a FreeBSD boot floppy, and since you will still be able >> to make these floppies under Windows 98 (guess whether *we* bothered to >> test with the betas), I don't actually see this as a problem except for >> the hysterical minority that are still unwilling to use any of the >> various perfectly adequate boot managers already in circulation. >> >> Please note that FreeBSD is an _operating_system_, not a Windows >> application. If you insist on corrupting your system's private state >> with another operating system, that's your own problem. > > I dont know where you lost track of the logic Mike. Somewhere in your text? > I'll type it slower this time: > > 1) Win95 restart to MS-DOS results in DOS with modified vectors. > 2) Win98 restart to MS-DOS results in DOS with modified vectors. > 3) Win98 "command line only" boot results in DOS with modified vectors. > 4) It's possible that a boot of a DOS floppy made on future versions > of Microsoft products will result in DOS with modified vectors. > > Summary) There may be no way of booting cleanly using a versions of > DOS from Microsoft in the future. If you like. Who cares? As Mike says, FreeBSD isn't a Microsoft application. (reformatting 132 character long line) > Conclusion) FreeBSD should not be relying on these vectors being > unmodified. Particularly when the broken code in question is going > to become mandatory. FreeBSD doesn't. What we're talking about is a standalone boot program that none of us use anyway. And the broken code is anything but mandatory. Understand what we're trying to tell you: run Microsoft if you must, but don't try to use it to run FreeBSD. > When I say "floppies have been formatted with Windows 98" I obviously > mean "formatted to be bootable." since I was replying to your > suggestion of "boot from a floppy". Dont try to cloud the issue by > stating the obvious "the formatter doesn't matter a damn". You misunderstand the situation. A FreeBSD boot diskette is a FreeBSD boot diskette, not a bootable Microsoft floppy. Once you copy the data to it, it knows nothing of Microsoft disk formats. > Now I know there will still be many ways of installing FreeBSD. > > All I'm saying is we should think twice before making "options VM86" > mandatory while it still contains broken code. I fail to see the connection. > Yes the code is broken while it assumes that the vectors are unmodified. If you boot FreeBSD successfully, whether by the easy way (boot floppy or CD-ROM) or the problematic way (via a Microsoft platform), you have modified the ``vectors'' to what FreeBSD wants. > If we are going down this path, it should be documented that certain > uses of fbsdboot.exe are no longer supported. It already is. We've always said that it's a bit tacky, since it has to interface to an uncooperative environment. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message