From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 24 20:12:56 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D41A1065672 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:12:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C318FC18 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:12:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm11 with SMTP id 11so1634842fxm.13 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:12:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=yWDi5Ur0DKMFn2/Gt9dQGJNHz0JR+ZiqiRH11zM8eFU=; b=XMJCaVs5VU89IIs6uR5qdFsGrpT1Z668sLgLxt2ykTKLspn/LxENyn95rPSWB4H8Vr 4DMoDLt6KNf3JC23sIZE0W1PkBSJRSFCT3I8JDzuneHOhVODgekWp7+z/VpMLW+GHSdu pnRqqpNfy3xItBvLpAdr+z7cR6IbwEeAC5yLw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=IGa1j8aehvViKrM+5piwMnNKCjl/ptspaWs63dFCXwd6ADseq9zn3Lc+5WSA0V8Hr2 /cxZ6kaXh7WIUpCdq5d28M40WESmRcptmfdUSVOYYqGU/o+e+HIeNALdI25diNvUpZH7 gTaWVh8E4Ly5/QgsRQgrYD2n6eJKz1BOmvs1I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.54.213 with SMTP id r21mr2133267fag.54.1303674373570; Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.20.145 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:46:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <99424DD0-6ED9-42E8-A3D2-0376D444109A@samsco.org> References: <20110420203754.GM85668@acme.spoerlein.net> <4DAF46F8.9040004@FreeBSD.org> <20110423.183641.41662287.sthaug@nethelp.no> <99424DD0-6ED9-42E8-A3D2-0376D444109A@samsco.org> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 14:46:13 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Scott Long Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Switch from legacy ata(4) to CAM-based ATA X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:12:56 -0000 On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Scott Long wrote: > Indeed, there's nothing wrong with preserving access to the system details > for the use of administration, troubleshooting, and even mere geeky > knowledge. This isn't about taking power away from the superusers, it's > about making the system smart enough to handle common situations reliably. > I'm sure that there some among us who pine for the good old days of manually > configuring and linking a kernel, but it's hard to argue that an > auto-configured kernel isn't pretty darn convenient most of the time. What > I'm proposing is just the next step in that process. > For me, your proposal would make life more difficult as it is on Linux. I've had to do more deployment/autoconfig setups recently and FreeBSD's method of device naming makes it much easier for me to deal with. I like the fact I easily know what disk is attached to what controller and what NIC driver is in use. The NIC specific naming is more useful than disk controller, but both have their places for me. It makes tweaking/troubleshooting quicker in some situations. In fact, I would like even more of it it, eg /dev/usbda0. What a disk is called is already different(for me) than what is in fstab since some(maybe many?) people are already using some of the abstraction methods currently available. If a sys-admin makes an effort, a consistent fstab is pretty easily achieved but it's better done by pre-deployment planning rather than after. If one of the new installer proposals handled this automatically, even better. My point is that device names are still an important hint to functionality particularly for auto-deployment/configure settings where specific hardware isn't always known ahead of time. -- Adam Vande More