From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG  Fri Feb 14 08:24:41 2014
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: x11@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (No client certificate requested)
 by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D86D1E4;
 Fri, 14 Feb 2014 08:24:41 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (No client certificate requested)
 by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04D291C43;
 Fri, 14 Feb 2014 08:24:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from [192.168.0.7] (cpc28-cmbg15-2-0-cust64.5-4.cable.virginm.net
 [86.27.189.65]) (authenticated bits=0)
 by theravensnest.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s1E8OTev060673
 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
 Fri, 14 Feb 2014 08:24:31 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.1 \(1827\))
Subject: Re: NEW_XORG and vt(4) in stable branches
From: David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAN6yY1so24MnHd133gF7zYEiaoJ5fRnZgsPA3NwcXOBn=_Aj7A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 08:24:27 +0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <1D7EC706-DFB5-40F8-8B4F-FF680E4F0FBB@FreeBSD.org>
References: <201402121443.44313.jhb@freebsd.org> <52FC8EDA.6090806@freebsd.org>
 <CAN6yY1so24MnHd133gF7zYEiaoJ5fRnZgsPA3NwcXOBn=_Aj7A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kevin Oberman <rkoberman@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827)
Cc: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Core Team <core@freebsd.org>,
 Niclas Zeising <zeising@freebsd.org>, ray@freebsd.org,
 "freebsd-x11@freebsd.org" <x11@freebsd.org>
X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support <freebsd-x11.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-x11>,
 <mailto:freebsd-x11-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-x11/>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-x11@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-x11-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11>,
 <mailto:freebsd-x11-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 08:24:41 -0000

On 14 Feb 2014, at 02:12, Kevin Oberman <rkoberman@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm just slightly confused by this. I am unaware of any reason that =
the use of NEW_XORG requires vt(4). KMS certainly does, but NEW_XORG =
should not, as far as I can tell. At least it does not on my system. I =
do believe that NEW_XORG will break some really old graphics cards, but =
I don't see how vt(4) will help this.
>=20
> Am I missing something?
>=20
> And I am very anxious to see vt(4) merged into 9 and 10, but I don't =
see how it impacts moving to NEW_XORG as default.

KMS is required for several of the new drivers.  Without KMS, NEW_XORG =
means Intel GPUs can only use VESA (the same is true for radeon, but the =
old radeon driver doesn't work at all with newer cards so it's not as =
much of a regression).  With KMS and without vt(4), starting X means =
losing consoles.  The only way to introduce NEW_XORG without introducing =
feature regressions is to have vt(4).  This is why we asked the =
Foundation to fund the vt(4) work.

David