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Date:      Tue, 16 Jan 2024 11:28:18 -0700
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Colin Percival <cperciva@tarsnap.com>
Cc:        Mike Karels <karels@freebsd.org>, src-committers@freebsd.org,  dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org,  FreeBSD Release Engineering Team <re@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: git: 6137b5f7b8c1 - main - Increase the size of riscv GENERICSD images to 6 GB
Message-ID:  <CANCZdfrph6QBQy7yftDT-HCoHK__wCbwGW5vB5ryr1PLH9=ALA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <0100018d0e26dbd2-438de9ce-b26b-4cef-a628-78a400025aba-000000@email.amazonses.com>
References:  <202401151330.40FDU0q9009324@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <CANCZdfoCp2%2B_oxkektAsputwhN5E3bu%2B8ogzcOAHkQLZNPfW3Q@mail.gmail.com> <45CAA8CA-9B5E-41D2-8416-83156B6AC721@freebsd.org> <0100018d0e26dbd2-438de9ce-b26b-4cef-a628-78a400025aba-000000@email.amazonses.com>

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On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:24=E2=80=AFAM Colin Percival <cperciva@tarsnap.c=
om>
wrote:

> On 1/15/24 08:36, Mike Karels wrote:
> > On 15 Jan 2024, at 9:37, Warner Losh wrote:
> >> One question here...
> >>
> >> Do we need to include all the debugging stuff in /usr/lib/debug? i'ts
> over
> >> 1GB out of 5GB and seems like a poor fit
> >> for this form factor. We can easily provide it as a package instead...=
.
> >>
> >> I know the inevitable march of largeness must progress, but we should
> ask
> >> ourselves is this really a good use of that 1GB?
> >
> > Good question.  On riscv, /usr/lib/debug is 2.5 GB.  (arm64 is 2.1 GB.)
> > I'm also not sure what it would take to leave it off, although I would
> guess
> > that a tweak to installworld could do it if we need debug for other
> targets.
> > I think the package already exists.  Of course, these images usually ge=
t
> > expanded to a much larger size on the first boot, so maybe the space
> doesn't
> > matter as much.
> >
> > Ideally, we'd keep the kernel debug, but that would probably be more
> work.
> >
> > It would probably make the most sense to the same thing for other
> architectures,
> > although arm64 at least has headroom.  The scripts to build the image
> files are
> > shared, but there is a config file per image.
> >
> > Opinions, anyone?  We could ask on freebsd-riscv and maybe other lists
> too.
>
> My inclination is to say that for now the "standard" FreeBSD images shoul=
d
> include all the bits which 'make installkernel installworld' provides.  (=
I
> have been considering shipping no-debug-files EC2 AMIs as an additional
> option, though, since people pay per GB for storage there.)
>

Yea, half the space is basically worthless. Few people get core dumps of
userland
programs, and the SD card doesn't ship with a swap area to take a kernel
dump.


> When we move to pkgbase it will become dramatically easier for users to
> install debug files if/when needed, and at that point I think it would ma=
ke
> sense to ship without them by default.
>

Yea, if they aren't easily available, it is harder. And snapshots can be
hard
to get back. So if you need it, you really need it to be bundled.

Warner

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:24=E2=80=
=AFAM Colin Percival &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cperciva@tarsnap.com">cperciva@t=
arsnap.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">On 1/15/24 08:36, Mike Karels wrote:<br>
&gt; On 15 Jan 2024, at 9:37, Warner Losh wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; One question here...<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Do we need to include all the debugging stuff in /usr/lib/debug? i=
&#39;ts over<br>
&gt;&gt; 1GB out of 5GB and seems like a poor fit<br>
&gt;&gt; for this form factor. We can easily provide it as a package instea=
d....<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I know the inevitable march of largeness must progress, but we sho=
uld ask<br>
&gt;&gt; ourselves is this really a good use of that 1GB?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Good question.=C2=A0 On riscv, /usr/lib/debug is 2.5 GB.=C2=A0 (arm64 =
is 2.1 GB.)<br>
&gt; I&#39;m also not sure what it would take to leave it off, although I w=
ould guess<br>
&gt; that a tweak to installworld could do it if we need debug for other ta=
rgets.<br>
&gt; I think the package already exists.=C2=A0 Of course, these images usua=
lly get<br>
&gt; expanded to a much larger size on the first boot, so maybe the space d=
oesn&#39;t<br>
&gt; matter as much.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Ideally, we&#39;d keep the kernel debug, but that would probably be mo=
re work.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; It would probably make the most sense to the same thing for other arch=
itectures,<br>
&gt; although arm64 at least has headroom.=C2=A0 The scripts to build the i=
mage files are<br>
&gt; shared, but there is a config file per image.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Opinions, anyone?=C2=A0 We could ask on freebsd-riscv and maybe other =
lists too.<br>
<br>
My inclination is to say that for now the &quot;standard&quot; FreeBSD imag=
es should<br>
include all the bits which &#39;make installkernel installworld&#39; provid=
es.=C2=A0 (I<br>
have been considering shipping no-debug-files EC2 AMIs as an additional<br>
option, though, since people pay per GB for storage there.)<br></blockquote=
><div><br></div><div>Yea, half the space is basically worthless. Few people=
 get core dumps of userland</div><div>programs, and the SD card doesn&#39;t=
 ship with a swap area to take a kernel dump.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
When we move to pkgbase it will become dramatically easier for users to<br>
install debug files if/when needed, and at that point I think it would make=
<br>
sense to ship without them by default.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
Yea, if they aren&#39;t easily available, it is harder. And snapshots can b=
e hard</div><div>to get back. So if you need it, you really need it to be b=
undled.</div><div><br></div><div>Warner</div></div></div>

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