From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 3 17:02:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8301065670; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 17:02:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E2F8FC1B; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 17:01:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn39 with SMTP id 39so13811836iwn.13 for ; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 09:01:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=nbVPQw35YgttEVtKpwKmXy6yJpDmDuNCwsR2mvr8t90=; b=MfVqDmaUpvchQQHyh+LcA8ulGVPXWczrYszGvhR2RhhIoPonpzze50doANaxQNloSf xZT/6leAg2CDEixX9gfPJekffknVEJk0LnawEuJm1dYylCOX9W4zloSRAERnqrjsFWbr R1Nhz1z+zy4U6Y1X/UA0kvynphBhQQXqC0KfA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=qDkJegy1oRO+MfpJfe18KP/WWQObYhmPLB2I1DI639DERAIPtQ64LiNO71gBc4kU3r m3akSvSM9rpY+vdnhHUgV35fINoNRnqjxhluz8AW4tR046AXbv6+qPeiGu+KDkTLvwBj PInqK5eXClEPfxSqYvOiKQwbDDi+epQUBITh4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.206.206 with SMTP id fv14mr4209473ibb.75.1294072599090; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.79.197 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 08:36:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D21488F.90107@freebsd.org> References: <4D20C8BF.701@freebsd.org> <4D21488F.90107@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 11:36:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Nathan Whitehorn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDInstall: I want the bikeshed painted plaid X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 17:02:00 -0000 On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > On 01/02/11 12:49, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > >> As those of you who obsessively follow the SVN commit mails may have >> noticed, I recently began work on a new installer, which I have >> tentatively named 'bsdinstall'. You can find the code itself at >> svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/user/nwhitehorn/bsdinstall and a wiki page >> describing it at http://wiki.freebsd.org/BSDInstall. >> >> > Personally I am installing many Linux and BSD operating systems to learn their features as much as possible and to utilize some of them for software development and a base for my developed applications . Up to now I could NOT be able to advance very much . In my daily operations , use of Mandriva Linux come out the best , and continuously I am using it . The main distinguishing differences for me are the following : - For the ordinary user ( not the root or as super user ) : - When a USB stick or external hard disk is attached , automatic mounting and usability of it ( read , write ) at least FAT or NTFS formatted ones ( Mandriva Linux requires other ones to be root mounted , as default ) . - Auto mount of CD or DVD ( especially ones containing data ) . - Usability of USB attached devices such as web camera . - Burning CD or DVD without interfering super user or root privileges . - Allowance of root login in GUI mode at the start up without entry from ordinary user mode into root mode . ( Debian Linux has such an option which asks to root whether root logins will be possible or not in GUI mode . Mandriva Linux has safe mode login with ability using KDE/GNOME ( the installed one ) by startx command , or choice from menu as Console login , and then issuing startx ) . All of the above features are available in Mandriva Linux , and Fedora or Debian Linux ( I did not burn CD or DVD in Fedora or Debian Linux ) . In FreeBSD , after an install , by following a pile of flash cards , it is necessary to enter some of the above features one by one . Up to now I could NOT be able to achieve burning of CD/DVD , auto mount CD/DVD or USB sticks , even I did NOT try to attach external HDD . I am using PC-BSD . It is allowing DVD burning with K3b version 1.0.5 , but very slowly which may be considered unusable . After burning 9 more DVDs , I will erase PC-BSD because I could NOT be able to manage its KDE wall paper which changing it itself , but it is irritating me very much . ( There is NO root login , automounts USB sticks , but not NTFS external HDD ) . Among the BSD operating systems , the best is FreeBSD , with the above missing parts ( at least for me . I can not work with it easily , this may mean that other people will have much more difficulty than me ( I have a PhD in Computer Engineering , and my life is passing in front of the personal computers .) . Another most important problem is hard disk partitioning . In Mandriva Linux , there are two main partitions : sda1 for operating system ( / ) sda6 for /home . During install , if there is an installed system which will be replaced : Check - Install ( upgrade is also available , Install fully installs from scratch ) - Use current partitions It is asking mount points : Give sda1 as / sda6 as /home . It is formatting ONLY and ONLY sda1 , but NOT sda6 ( /home ) . The only loss is user names . During user definitions , IF the SAME USER NAMES are given , all of the data are again belong to their original users without any loss . In that way , I am able to install any new Mandriva Linux version easily . Even when older installed structure is ext3 , but new version is ext4 , it is installing ext3 for the older available structure . I have noticed this after installing all of the operating system on a new disk . Its file system was ext4 , the other one ext3 ( installed on older version ) . My conclusion is that , the hard disk layout structure of FreeBSD , really needs a new design . I am so desperate about such installs that , I am thinking to write a new install program with respect to my experiences . My difficulty is I am not using C and not fluent as much as to write a competent install program . My ideas about partitions are as follows : Partition 1 : Operating System . 2 : Packages / Ports used globally 3 : User definitions ( names , privileges , passwords , etc ) 4 : /home : User data directories ( each user will have a jailed environment , means he/she will be able to pkg_add into HIS/HER environment . The root will add them for global use ) 5. ... others . With one important feature : Partitions 2 , 3 , 4 should be assignable to either a single disk ( with the 1 : Operating system partition ) or MULTIPLE , DIFFERENT disks : In that way default home will be /home , additional home directories in different disk units , for example /homeA , /homeB , ... Therefore , during user definitions , it should be possible to specify his/her home explicitly when there are multiple home directories . With the above layout , it will be possible to install operating system ONLY into its own partition without touching to other partitions when it is decided to upgrade a system in that way . Installing the operating system in the following way , may allow experimenting and using different versions on the same system : /FreeBSD /FreeBSD/8.2/ /FreeBSD/8.3/ /FreeBSD/9.0/ etc. , each one in its own directory with the usual subdirectories . For the packages , require that each package installs into ... /package_name/version/ which will allow installation of different versions in the same partition ( some of the packages are using this structure , but not all of the ) . This is important for different operating system versions . When an additional Operating system is installed , it will FORMAT its own directories , IF there are EXISTING other versions , with some other necessary options , such Format ALL of them . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk