From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 25 15:18:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F8137B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-21.mail.nl.demon.net (post-21.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A4143EC2 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:18:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cls@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-21.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 18GSUs-000Gre-00 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:18:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id F1290BB0A for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:18:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id E49F11854 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:18:22 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id 23DD422596; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:18:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:18:23 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Style(9) question Message-ID: <20021125231823.GA567@raggedclown.net> References: <20021122193040.GA23078@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20021122214405.GA11011@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <8gof8g83w4.f8g@localhost.localdomain> <20021124090603.GA3172@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <20021124100846.GC51850@raggedclown.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 12:54:56PM -0800, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Cliff Sarginson writes: > > > [snip] This basically meant everyone ignored them (I think actually > > that nobody read them). > > More common, from my experience, is good-old-boy, wink-of-the-eye > variable enforcement of standards, so that standards are learned and > followed best by the persons who recieve the most frequent and severe > sanctions for violations. (And to a lesser degree, by those with the > least pressure to produce working code.) The system obviously has some > practical merit, but it often results in a lot of unhappy programmers. > > This is one reason for very strict enforcement of standards -- even > automated systems -- so that favoritism doesn't rear it's ugly head. > Of course, it tends to slow down and ire the most productive coders. > Mmm. Well then we get to the question of what productivity means. Joe Wizard may turn out working code very quickly, but written in his own idiosyncratic style. 2 years later, he has burnt out and is raising chickens from a caravan in Wales. Fred Newbie is assigned the task of maintaining Joe's code and he goes cross-eyed in the process...so his productivity is severely impaired. If people are writing code probably destined for a long-life it seems to me not such a bad idea that some kind of standard format, even a loose one, is better than none at all. But we keep going back to the point on agreement of what is a style generally usable by most programmers. Unless you give the powers of Cardinal Richelieu to the program authority on this, there will always be programmers who will not follow *any* of the guidelines. If such a person presents a 2000 line program, written without a care for any poor sod that is going to have to read it, but it "works", what Project Manager will be pleased to hear that he has been told to re-format it, an activity that may take days of begrudged work. So enforcement is better before and during the act, it is fairly hopeless afterwards. -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message