From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 11 21:58: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19BF937B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spqr.osg.gov.bc.ca (spqr.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.102.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B6B43E31 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca) Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (passer.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.110.29]) by spqr.osg.gov.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1789F171; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cwsys.cwsent.com (cwsys2 [10.1.2.1]) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.12.5/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6C4vvOX067587; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:57:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cy@cwsent.com) Received: from cwsys (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.12.5/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6C4vux4006072; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:57:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cy@cwsys.cwsent.com) Message-Id: <200207120457.g6C4vux4006072@cwsys.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 Reply-To: Cy Schubert - CITS Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - CITS Open Systems Group X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com To: Wes Peters Cc: Cy Schubert - CITS Open Systems Group , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Package system wishlist In-Reply-To: Message from Wes Peters of "Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:22:06 PDT." <3D2CEBCE.55DC3C6D@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:57:56 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry for the late reply, management course. In message <3D2CEBCE.55DC3C6D@softweyr.com>, Wes Peters writes: > Cy Schubert - CITS Open Systems Group wrote: > > > > In message <3D2BE142.E25CA9BC@mindspring.com>, Terry Lambert writes: > > > So, following Jordan's advice, what's on everyone's wishlist? > > > > > > Terry's Wishlist: > > [...] > > > > + Cy's Wishlist: > > > > o Optional installation of sources. RH's SRPM's is a very poor > > example of this. A better example would be what IBM does to > > install JES/2 on their MVS system, e.g. an OpenSSH package might > > contain source in addition to binaries. The sources would be > > installed in /usr/src while the binaries would be installed > > in /usr/bin, sbin.... > > Yes! My mythical XML metadata format, with or without external "filesets", > would handle this with aplomb. The source set would be included in the > metadata and you could skip it or install it as with any other fileset. > Come to think of it, you could include the ports Makefile and patches as > well. Hmm, that bears some thinking about. Most of what is in a "port" > right now is metadata too. IBM used UCL. XML is better. > > > o Files replaced by a package backed up in case of package removal > > I'm not sure what you mean here. Be able to create a backup script of > the files related to a package for backing up? Be able to restore only > missing files from a package? Both seem like good ideas... If for example openssh-overwrite-base-3.4p1 is installed, the old binaries are saved (backed up) before the package is installed. If I pkg_delete openssh-overwrite-base-3.4p1, the old ssh files are restored (reappear). > > > o Check option: Tell me what it will do without doing it > > > > o Group option: Install prerequisites > > Wouldn't you want this to be the default, perhaps with an option to > abort if they're not "readily available"??? You're right. Then there should be an option to just install the selected packages and nothing else. This would allow for "creative" problem solving. > > > o Groupextend option: Install postrequisites, e.g. dependent > > packages and patches > > In other words, roll portupgrade into the system. Yes. > > > o Ability to install my own packages on top of packages and > > patches, I like to call them USERMODS. > > Your own packages or your changes to a standard package? I can see the > value, but how to do it doesn't leap immediately to mind. This increases the complexity of the proposed package system. This was mentioned as a possible ideal. I doubt this feature would be used much. Please use it as you see fit. > > > o The package system should be independent of the compression tool > > used. In the future new compression algorithms and tools will > > be developed. The package system should be flexible enough to > > not care how its files are compressed or packaged. > > Ditto for archive formats, encoding formats, etc. We should probably > specify one of each as a bare minimum, choosing from those that are > available in library format, reasonably licensed, and have acceptable > performance (for some definition of acceptable). > > > o The ability to export and import the package database (currently > > to clone systems, I rsync /usr/local, /usr/X11R6, and /var/db/pkg > > to a new system I am installing, this saves many hours of work). > > Yes, perhaps even the ability to capture a currently installed package > and turn it back into a package file. That'd be way cool for duplicating > packages with local customizations. > > > > o I want to be able to remove system components, like "sendmail" > > > and "OpenSSH". > > > > Ideally everything should install as a package, however that would > > create a lot of extra work for us developers. I have yet to think of a > > painless way to do this. > > Yeah, Debian has certainly showed us how NOT to do it. "Which version of > /bin/cat do you want?" Exactly. This had its usefulness in the mainframe world where decisions made years ago would cost millions of dollars to undo. OTOH, choosing a SYSV init v.s. a BSD init might be nice (just an example, no flames please). Ultimately striking the proper balance is our goal. Please pick and choose any ideas as you see fit. -- Cheers, Phone: 250-387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: 250-387-5766 Team Leader, Sun/Alpha Team Email: Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca Open Systems Group, CITS Ministry of Management Services Province of BC FreeBSD UNIX: cy@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message