From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 7 20:20:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E284106566B for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:20:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from djackson452@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD3D8FC0C for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so7533285bkc.13 for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:20:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=yaWn3i/tlcbf2myp75J5AdR3bnua440Pr04Hdmbi8N4=; b=I9nJCJq+VkZpl6NKxyHEbCB+3cExmcbOIgWVI5E1+zzjgHtz1I1chpZW2xV2r/8Ma3 NpfFIgsGZRHEmsm4lh9r5pR3MY33DSUXh+6NhXycpbPDLT4uYDthDP8sGvAMimIk29nx 9lKzHugTxN5YvyQRn6MkMWgnovyChC171sh8d8/iFHyqK+1nmD053kCVCSxOFEvz7p2F JJEkQmLTACVA5k64QLbv87r8/dC9eHNxOZfSD3Hj65Xdwq+LB1mbMZLJuPH+9t7ERFvE ksP3hxkC16hkr4yiIho+jgEFo9VCqPcVVRSAyWo5JJ7z0QNbUxZe5ngTQaRrYQkrNHG8 0JXw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.83.105 with SMTP id p9mr1244697lby.43.1331151619313; Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.45.137 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 12:20:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20120307175852.7de93d6f.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 15:20:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: David Jackson To: Andrew Gould , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Still having trouble with package upgrades X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:20:21 -0000 On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Gould wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:56 PM, David Jackson > wrote: > > > >> > >> This is irrelevant. FreeBSD has these options because most of its > >> users are system administrators, developers or other types of geeks. > >> Serving these needs is a major part of what FreeBSD does. That's why > >> we have the long standing motto: "FreeBSD - The power to serve". > >> People who don't want these things, and insist on fool-proof upgrades > >> will probably be happier running Windows, Mac OS X or some > >> distribution of Linux. I've been around email lists long enough to > >> know that every operating system (MS Windows, Linux, etc) occasionally > >> has its update nightmares. > >> > >> My advice to you is: > >> 1. Define your needs. > >> 2. Choose the best software to meet your needs. > >> 3. Choose the best operating system to run the software. > >> 4. Choose the best hardware to run the operating system. > >> > >> If you've performed these steps out of order, you're unlikely to be > happy. > >> > >> Andrew > > > > > > You have just now declared complete indifference to and alienated about > 99% > > of the potential user base and their needs, those who could care less > about > > compiling source and messing with compiler options. > > > > I disagree. I have provided a process for you (or others) to make > better decisions regarding the selection of software, operating > systems and hardware. How could the developers of any operating > system please everyone without watering down the excellent qualities > of their creation? It is good that we have so many operating systems > from which to choose. This allows operating systems to specialize in > their strengths and for users to prioritize their needs. > > To the extent that you have discussed tools that are broken, I thank > you; and I hope you have reported the bugs. I'm sure the tools will > be fixed. > > Every open source operating system is created by developers who decide > the direction the operating system will take. The operating system is > backed by its own community. When you throw claims about most users > not wanting to compile applications from source code, it is clear that > you have not taken time to learn about the operating system, its > history or the culture of the community. I encourage you to do so. > > I think that your statement here is fundamentally flawed and wrong, because you have assumed that it is impossible for the OS to be able to be user friendly and geek friendly at the same time. This is wrong. In fact, I have outlined ways repeatedly that FreeBSD could provide an easy to use package system without compromising on the flexibility of ports in any way. The idea that the OS has to be either difficult to use or it has to be easy to use for novices is wrong. The OS can be both and I have written about ways that can be done, in fact, I can show how it can be done in every area. For instance, with better binary packages, those are simply built from ports using the best set of options. Those who want to compile for themselves will still be able to do so, just fine. So you have presented a position here that is simply not true. FreeBSD can be more user friendly and as the same time be flexible and friendly to experts such as yourself. its not an either or choice. Andrew >