From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 6 18:35:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7981FB57; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:35:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15A2A1695; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:35:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from park.js.berklix.net (pD9FBF118.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.251.241.24]) (authenticated bits=128) by land.berklix.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s16IYcUe017054; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 18:34:38 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by park.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id s16IZ0B2097161; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:35:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s16IYgDK044802; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:34:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201402061834.s16IYgDK044802@fire.js.berklix.net> To: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RFC: deprecation of nve(4) in 10-STABLE and removal from 11-CURRENT From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 06 Feb 2014 09:58:32 +0900." <20140206005832.GB2810@michelle.cdnetworks.com> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 19:34:42 +0100 Cc: pyunyh@gmail.com, Christian Brueffer X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 18:35:09 -0000 Yonghyeon PYUN wrote: > On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 02:56:37PM +0100, Christian Brueffer wrote: > > Hi, > > > > for some time now we have had two drivers for NVIDIA NForce/MCP network > > chips, namely nve(4) and nfe(4). > > > > The former came first and is based on a binary blob. The latter was > > later ported from OpenBSD and is blob-free. > > > > nfe(4) supports all chips nve(4) supports, in addition to all the newer > > hardware. In essence, nfe(4) has been the de-facto standard driver for > > a long time. nve(4) has been commented out in GENERIC since 2007. > > > > For this reason I propose deprecating nve(4) in 10-STABLE and removing > > it from HEAD. > > > > Does anyone see a reason not to do this? > > A couple of users were still using nve(4) in the past. I guess > the issue might be lack of code for waking up MAC/PHY from > powerdown. nfe(4) already has the needed code and should support > all known NVIDIA ethernet controllers with full offloading support. > So no objection from me. It seems a good case to remove nve, no objection. Please remove at a leisurely managed pace: (unless code conflicts press for urgency), ie at least one minor release on each major branch should contain a code revocation warning in the manual & preferably in a src/[A-Z]*, before the next minor release in same major release sequence might no longer contain old code. ( Not to suggest it wasn't planned similarly anyway, but some changes in other areas of FreeBSD have been rushed, & it's good to set an example of planning maturity. ) Some FreeBSD end users inc. customers barely (if even) read announce@, let alone other lists such as these, but some do read manuals, & notice code withdrawal warnings. I informed one old customer who was maybe still using nve, others might take a similar opportunity, a subtle way to also invite people to look at FreeBSD [again] ;-) , referring to eg: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2014-February/048211.html http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/release/10.0.0/share/man/man4/nve.4?view=markup http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/release/10.0.0/share/man/man4/nfe.4?view=markup It seems safe to add a removal warning in http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/share/man/man4/nve.4?view=markup ( there is not one yet at Rev 217468, I just checked. ) Best avoid the obscure word `Deprecated' in manuals: It's not common/ plain English. Maybe a geek import, or USA dialect ? It's not easily internationaly understood English. Best make manuals easier for non native English speakers (& native English too ;-). I am British born & bred, whether in English speaking circles in UK or Germany I never hear or read 'deprecated' unless its in BSD context. Few native English speakers I know will be immediately sure of the meaning, it's too obscure. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Interleave replies below like a play script. Indent old text with "> ". Send plain text, not quoted-printable, HTML, base64, or multipart/alternative.