From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 14 20:29:36 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BF9BC8C; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:29:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pd0-x231.google.com (mail-pd0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AEE2133B; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:29:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id x10so12367071pdj.36 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:29:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=dCrpPJqmlCgJVKQEBQhM6Tep1yopvbDir/j8DgfZDvc=; b=MEVpsJRWHlSW1z8AMO7Vbr2Bf7cz2PXbxhzBLCc6PJAoW8uQwOagk8K+I+Fhy5QZmJ mr+wLqquCX7V1bj+pGdB4K9nqDbOTC+n0cJb0jXcAjqWHLd27dFcrfVKvYNnaMfgH1Fp 42Sf4JTXsjHC8i1XOSDL6gtjPr4uErZkigDcYyR6EcHTlodlGwHo9eu/XMeI9Lwtyd8z WEcPsGe2sPgX/qUGK/HL/5DieWsZA5q4cz1YMYj1CgJXUrI3Jkj0pp0jQ/7cEq9NZ3+C trxuXo718QTFMOdAkQ19kX7WpiYJ6hC/sOraL0p9Cr6pkml6/cSOK+n30jSLmxIoJ5Lu GNaw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.67.8.102 with SMTP id dj6mr11442859pad.10.1392409775895; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:29:35 -0800 (PST) Sender: kob6558@gmail.com Received: by 10.67.30.1 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:29:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1D7EC706-DFB5-40F8-8B4F-FF680E4F0FBB@FreeBSD.org> References: <201402121443.44313.jhb@freebsd.org> <52FC8EDA.6090806@freebsd.org> <1D7EC706-DFB5-40F8-8B4F-FF680E4F0FBB@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:29:35 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cYLN4ZvDi3xNcClnhADBsfHkiCM Message-ID: Subject: Re: NEW_XORG and vt(4) in stable branches From: Kevin Oberman To: David Chisnall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.17 Cc: John Baldwin , FreeBSD Core Team , Niclas Zeising , ray@freebsd.org, "freebsd-x11@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:29:36 -0000 On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 12:24 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 14 Feb 2014, at 02:12, Kevin Oberman wrote: > > > I'm just slightly confused by this. I am unaware of any reason that the > use of NEW_XORG requires vt(4). KMS certainly does, but NEW_XORG should > not, as far as I can tell. At least it does not on my system. I do believe > that NEW_XORG will break some really old graphics cards, but I don't see > how vt(4) will help this. > > > > Am I missing something? > > > > And I am very anxious to see vt(4) merged into 9 and 10, but I don't see > how it impacts moving to NEW_XORG as default. > > KMS is required for several of the new drivers. Without KMS, NEW_XORG > means Intel GPUs can only use VESA (the same is true for radeon, but the > old radeon driver doesn't work at all with newer cards so it's not as much > of a regression). With KMS and without vt(4), starting X means losing > consoles. The only way to introduce NEW_XORG without introducing feature > regressions is to have vt(4). This is why we asked the Foundation to fund > the vt(4) work. > Yes, I agre. I have an Intel GPU and it either must run KMS or VESA (which really sucks). But, AFAIK, NEW_XORG does not break VESA, so making NEW_XORG default regresses nothing. I am running with KMS and have no access to vtys once I start X. I can see no regression from "It's broken" to "It's broken". And VESA is pretty broken on it, though I lived with it for about 9 months until the first release of KMS for testing on 9. Is it the case that NEW_XORG breaks syscons on some pre-Sandybridge systems that would work with UMS but won't work with NEW_XORG? If that is the case, I do understand. I was not aware of this issue. Thanks! - R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com