From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 19:32:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2684BD4; Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:32:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98CC8FC0C; Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.250.141.33] (181.sub-174-254-232.myvzw.com [174.254.232.181]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB2421A3DD8; Wed, 28 Nov 2012 11:32:29 -0800 (PST) References: <201211272004.qARK4qS8047209@svn.freebsd.org> <50B54180.5020608@freebsd.org> <50B54492.5040100@freebsd.org> <956CE44A-BA0F-4FE4-AA38-F4B90C85ECBA@FreeBSD.org> <50B54CE0.6080008@freebsd.org> <2A12C740-1D72-4D30-B663-47A37AAC2FF3@FreeBSD.org> <50B5C4F1.1020002@freebsd.org> <50B64C43.50001@mu.org> <20121128175116.GI14202@FreeBSD.org> <41E6060B-5A74-4524-9011-2BFFF5B47E24@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <41E6060B-5A74-4524-9011-2BFFF5B47E24@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <645253DB-A722-477B-8E86-FDBD9E3E58C4@mu.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10A523) From: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: svn commit: r243627 - head/sys/kern Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 11:32:27 -0800 To: "Robert N. M. Watson" Cc: "src-committers@FreeBSD.org" , Andre Oppermann , Peter Wemm , "svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org" , Gleb Smirnoff , "svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:32:31 -0000 Do you think we need another TRB? It could be used to oust undesirable committers if needed.=20 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 28, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "Robert N. M. Watson" wr= ote: >=20 > On 28 Nov 2012, at 17:51, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: >=20 >> On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 09:39:15AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> A> Personally I don't think we need any more anchors attached to people's= =20 >> A> feet when developing FreeBSD. >> A>=20 >> A> Mistakes will happen, they will happen in head. Slowing down the=20 >> A> process to eliminate mistakes only works to slow down change and give a= =20 >> A> false sense of "fixing stability" when in fact the only thing "stable"= =20 >> A> is the slowness of submitting code. >>=20 >> This will eventually lead back to the situation when no one runs head, >> because it is unusable. >=20 > Also, based on past experience: I'm much happier reviewing shaky code befo= re it goes into the tree than trying to debug it in situ and having to back i= t out. If our advice to many companies is that they should start developing p= roducts against head, we can't let the quality of the head get back to the w= ay it was in the 5.x timeframe. Several factors have led to our having a nea= rly-production quality development head over the last few years -- one is mu= ch heavier use of branched development for features (first Perforce, and mor= e recently, Subversion, git, etc branches); the other is much heavier use of= code review, especially for critical parts of the system. Device driver aut= hors have a lot more leeway, but for core parts of the design, seeking revie= w during development of a feature, and then before merging it upstream, shou= ld be an expectation for all but the most trivial of changes. It's a two-way= street, of course: if you review other people's code, they will review your= s, so as more people use review, the pool of potential reviewers goes up as w= ell. >=20 > Robert