From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 29 01:57:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B9F16A407 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:57:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Lucas.James@ldjcs.com.au) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au (vscan01.westnet.com.au [203.10.1.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4559843D49 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:57:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Lucas.James@ldjcs.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779B2762373 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 09:57:19 +0800 (WST) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vscan01.westnet.com.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13546-09 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 09:57:19 +0800 (WST) Received: from mail.ldjcs.com.au (gw.ldjcs.com.au [58.6.71.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by vscan01.westnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210D176232B for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 09:57:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from mail.ldjcs.com.au (mail [203.17.30.35]) by mail.ldjcs.com.au (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9T1vCp2089468 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 12:57:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Lucas.James@ldjcs.com.au) From: Lucas James Organization: LDJ Computer Services To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:57:11 +1000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <45425D92.8060205@elischer.org> <20061028194125.GL30707@riyal.ugcs.caltech.edu> In-Reply-To: X-Face: e#5HTm!2AOnnlvY27|AK6.`J(ChPFkY3HW!e4V4wR['1cgNGkM]jcez{.k&'BU<=?utf-8?q?9PXMyZV=0A=09I=5DY6?=(=?utf-8?q?=3B=7Bf4=3BJ=24YOdl4=2E72fZ7j=5D=5FFLF=5EmMP=25V4=5Du=2E=3FX?= =?utf-8?q?U=5CTEgmbQ=23Xz=3BNpIa=3DGa=25z=7BvzRD=3A=5Da=0A=09ag5GR3cU3Amx?=>{B~V]n#Ost[Y2G+%5, KIt%?Bl6+nV55<6D> =?utf-8?q?=3AUJde!=23a=25Qq=7DAjbLUF13P/=0A=099e+eKK?=)bHSAwJub}Kw80RW&i$lZ[e{%uSGh{3%?eq#YghK|y8r.N, ~6@'_#, =?utf-8?q?MC-w=7DJB-5W=0A=09=3A/w?=,dDT'sHeU{nws)>E; 3Tk@Tm38Ju~)VhS; FSDz*VbetRLV{ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610291257.11744.Lucas.James@ldjcs.com.au> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on mail.ldjcs.com.au Subject: Re: Comments on the KSE option X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:57:22 -0000 On Sunday 29 October 2006 12:08, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sat, 28 Oct 2006, Paul Allen wrote: > > Anyways it remains dubious in my mind that the kernel should allow > > a user to create many processes but penalize creating threads. > > Are you even _reading_ what people are saying? No one has > said that you can't have system scope threads. Stop with > the FUD. The question we seem to be arguing about is whether > to also allow (and perhaps make default) process scope threads > (these are fair threads). I read what Paul said was that system scope threads have a different "fairness" than processes. ie: If your application requires 1000 threads of execution, you can write it three ways, with 1000 processes, 1000 system scope threads or 1000 process scope threads (or a mix of the three). This whole "fairness" argument is about making system scope threads have the same priority as process scope threads. It leaves out the process model. The real question here is: are we going to make system scope thread model fair compared to process scope threaded model, or fair compared to the separate processes model? Yes, the process scope threads are allways going to be the poor man with regard to priority, but as the kernel doesn't see the threads you can't do much about it. Lucas -- What if there had been room at the inn? -- Linda Festa on the origins of Christianity