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Date:      Mon, 8 Jan 2024 11:39:32 -0700
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Xin LI <delphij@gmail.com>
Cc:        Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de>, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Move u2f-devd into base?
Message-ID:  <CANCZdfp=GXN%2BsYYSKGp6NUhHokCQC7-1NKPeV1ecJMae-ghySw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAGMYy3vsiy=TjDkB2ebCD6sDsUvruwXJOjOYf=3f4BhqzFySKA@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <ZZwLx1RxlY6xuvFV@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> <CANCZdfqpbL=QNgTwBveUpBooucX2MbfZnR9dw4w25_TXYOyuDg@mail.gmail.com> <CAGMYy3vsiy=TjDkB2ebCD6sDsUvruwXJOjOYf=3f4BhqzFySKA@mail.gmail.com>

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On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 10:30=E2=80=AFAM Xin LI <delphij@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 7:19=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote=
:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024, 7:55=E2=80=AFAM Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.in=
ka.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We have FIDO/U2F support for SSH in base.
>>>
>>> We also have a group "u2f", 116, in the default /etc/group file.
>>>
>>> Why do we keep the devd configuration (to chgrp the device nodes)
>>> in a port, security/u2f-devd?  Can't we just add this to base, too?
>>> It's just another devd configuration file.
>>>
>>
>> This properly belongs to devfs.conf no? Otherwise it's a race...
>>
>
> That's a good point.  But I think in practice the race (if I'm
> understanding correctly, there would be a window where the device node
> showed up, but with the standard permissions until devd kicks in and runs
> "action" steps to change it) would probably not matter because the
> consumers (Chromium?) would be polling for the device and when opening
> failed, they would retry, as the security key is not guaranteed to be
> present when a website asks for it, and it's perfectly natural for the
> browser to see the security key getting attached and detached while it is
> running.
>

I just don't like this depending on devd not dropping the arrival bit (due
to too much congestion of events) and having a resulting broken system.
It's half-assed today, but it's half-assed enough that it works enough of
the time the issue hasn't been pressing (which is my way of agreeing with
you: its imperfect, but it works almost all the time today). Working well
enough suggests we shouldn't 'gate' this change to a perfect solution....
Especially since we're a bit short handed in the usb world after Hans'
tragic passing.


> I would say it's a good idea to have something there in place to support
> these security keys (possibly also cameras, etc.), especially considering
> the base OpenSSH now supports U2F devices.  It's probably a good idea to
> have adduser / installer to have a defined "interactive local user" group=
s
> (u2f, video, etc. come to mind) that users are added into by default to
> provide a reasonable out-of-box default too.
>

Totally agree here.

Warner

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 10:30=E2=80=AF=
AM Xin LI &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:delphij@gmail.com">delphij@gmail.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On M=
on, Jan 8, 2024 at 7:19=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:imp@bs=
dimp.com" target=3D"_blank">imp@bsdimp.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 8, 2024, 7:5=
5=E2=80=AFAM Christian Weisgerber &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:naddy@mips.inka.de"=
 target=3D"_blank">naddy@mips.inka.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">We have FIDO/U2F support for SSH in ba=
se.<br>
<br>
We also have a group &quot;u2f&quot;, 116, in the default /etc/group file.<=
br>
<br>
Why do we keep the devd configuration (to chgrp the device nodes)<br>
in a port, security/u2f-devd?=C2=A0 Can&#39;t we just add this to base, too=
?<br>
It&#39;s just another devd configuration file.<br></blockquote></div></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This properly belongs to devf=
s.conf no? Otherwise it&#39;s a race...</div></div></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">That&#39;s a good point.=
=C2=A0 But I think in practice the race (if I&#39;m understanding correctly=
, there would be a window where the device node showed up, but with the sta=
ndard permissions until devd kicks in and runs &quot;action&quot; steps to =
change it) would probably not matter because the consumers (Chromium?) woul=
d be polling for the device and when opening failed, they would retry, as t=
he security key is not guaranteed to be present when a website asks for it,=
=C2=A0and it&#39;s perfectly natural for the browser to see the security ke=
y getting attached and detached while it is running.</div></div></div></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>I just don&#39;t like this depending on devd no=
t dropping the arrival bit (due to too much congestion of events) and havin=
g a resulting broken system. It&#39;s half-assed today, but it&#39;s half-a=
ssed enough that it works enough of the time the issue hasn&#39;t been pres=
sing (which is my way of agreeing with you: its imperfect, but it works alm=
ost all the time today). Working well enough suggests we shouldn&#39;t &#39=
;gate&#39; this change to a perfect solution.... Especially since we&#39;re=
 a bit short handed in the usb world after Hans&#39; tragic passing.</div><=
div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D"font-family:monospace,mon=
ospace">I would say it&#39;s a good idea to have something there in place t=
o support these security keys (possibly also cameras, etc.), especially con=
sidering the base OpenSSH now supports U2F devices.=C2=A0 It&#39;s probably=
 a good idea to have adduser / installer to have a defined &quot;interactiv=
e local user&quot; groups (u2f, video, etc. come to mind) that users are ad=
ded into by default to provide a reasonable out-of-box default too.</div></=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Totally agree here.=C2=A0</div><=
div><br></div><div>Warner</div></div></div>

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