From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 7 11:23:38 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBACB1065675 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 11:23:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A0B8FC1C for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 11:23:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r55.edvax.de (port-92-195-8-222.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.8.222]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0BCC3D7D8 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:23:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from r55.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r55.edvax.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id oA7BNa0f002028 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:23:36 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:23:36 +0100 From: Polytropon To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20101107122336.9826a06b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20101107055142.0c9d94ce@scorpio> References: <20101106190934.GB67566@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20101106200239.00004b64@unknown> <20101106203213.GC13095@guilt.hydra> <20101106225446.GC67566@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20101107094312.911d76c7.freebsd@edvax.de> <20101107055142.0c9d94ce@scorpio> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Tips for installing windows and freeBSD both.. anyone?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 11:23:38 -0000 On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 05:51:42 -0500, Jerry wrote: > On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 09:43:12 +0100 > Polytropon articulated: > > > On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:54:46 -0700, Chip Camden > > wrote: > > > What does KDE or GNOME buy you anyway? Besides overhead. > > > > Bloat. :-) I was just kidding, but maybe you want a serious discussion about terminology, well, no problem. :-) > Bloat can easily be defined as something one user does not > need/require. As my understanding, bloat refers to the tradition, mainly driven by "rapid application development", to stack tons of dependencies and abstraction layers in order to re-implement existing functionality in programs that ugraded some of their main libraries. This usually goes along with a reduction of accessibility or ease of use. Furthermore, resource requirements increase, and overall usage speed goes down. Often this is caused by stuff that nobody needs, because it is totally UNUSABLE. This is bloat. > Essential can conversely be defined as something a user needs/desires. Agreed. > In other works, your bloat can easily be another user's requirements. At least I'm willing to admit that it *might* be that there are users who require software that justifies buying a new computer twice a year to keep them doing the same things. In conclusion, it might also be possible that some users enjoy waiting times. > If you are happy wiping your ass with your bare hand, then fine. Many > of use prefer to use toilet paper which perhaps you might define as > "toiletry bloat." Don't they own a toilet brush? :-) Okay, I'm getting serious again: The basic idea is having certain requirements. Those requirements emerge from personal opinions, experiences, and needs, and also from a growing amount of expectations. That whatever fits those requirements is the ideal solution. In one case, this can be KDE, in another case, this is Windowmaker, and in a third case, this is SSH. There is no way of saying "one KDE fits all" or similar. > To answer the question, "What does KDE or GNOME buy you anyway?", the > answer is nothing. They have never even brought me a cup of coffee. You need to install Kaffeine. :-) > Now, > if the user were to inquire as to what these two competing applications > have to offer, I might suggest that he/she start by visiting the > applications respective web sites for further details. Even more imporant, it's worth TRYING them. In use - and see how well they work. For example, I've been using KDE and Gnome in the past, and even try them from time to time to see how they did develop and if those requirements *I* have are already met. There are also many alternatives in the GUI sector, and even "split mode" is possible, e. g. use Blackbox as window manager, but use some of the KDE and Gnome programs side by side. THIS IS THE STRENGTH OF CHOICE. Especially novice users do not want choice. They primarily want something preinstalled and preconfigured. This is okay. The PC-BSD system fits this requirement well. Still, you have to make sure that certain requirement OF THE SOFTWARE are met, e. g. recent hardware that is supported (not too old, not too new). If hardware dictates what you can use (not just install and run, but ACTUALLY use), then KDE and Gnome are often a total no-go. Bloat, to come back to my initial statement, is the main cause of no-go. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...