Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 23:07:01 +0200 From: Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> To: Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> Cc: Shawn Webb <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: A Demo of rust-in-base Message-ID: <20240829230701.9790a7957f4dd6fc3c511d22@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <CAOtMX2hvjegNVeZhwTwM3s=6H1Z_dzSuhfOroJq3nZQCSfJwWg@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAOtMX2gdt8xYyLR3peYWhov-161-6d7%2B8L6TiHCCyw1NQyspXw@mail.gmail.com> <hraulhvnvyy5riur63iy53ed6m276prpw577qyg4xpm4xkyxmm@zpvdqgpvpsxv> <CAOtMX2hvjegNVeZhwTwM3s=6H1Z_dzSuhfOroJq3nZQCSfJwWg@mail.gmail.com>
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2024 14:55:10 -0600
Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 2:21?PM Shawn Webb <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org> w=
rote:
> >
> > Hey Alan et al,
> >
> > I apologize for the silence on my end. It has been a busier two months
> > than anticipated. In that time, I've been entertaining some thoughts
> > on Rust in base support. ${LIFE} is starting to calm down again, and I
> > do believe I'll be able to start the research in time in September. I
> > will be splitting my free time between this and studying for my OSCP
> > cert.
> >
> > So, to those thoughts, in list form (in no particular order):
> >
> > 1. Use of Rust compiler toolchain support will be for userland
> > components in an opt-in fashion. Meaning, all userland components
> > written in Rust will be optional.
> > 2. It does not make sense to perform a vendor import of the Rust
> > compiler toolchain and standard libraries. All Rust code in the src
> > tree must be built from an external toolchain.
> > 3. I believe the notion of an external toolchain could be abstracted
> > such that we can support any optional userland component written in
> > a language supported by that external toolchain. This would imply
> > that other alternative languages could be supported with minimal
> > work (Zig, TypeScript, Python, Java, etc.)
> > 4. We could provide auto-detection mechanisms for determining which
> > external toolchains are available, their language support, etc. The
> > initial proof-of-concept would likely be limited to Rust to save on
> > time and complexity.
> > 5. As the work matures, and perhaps as a requisite for eventual
> > inclusion, we could land support for more than Rust. This might be
> > a step too far, but hey, it's one of the thoughts I had.
> > 6. So all of this wrapped up means that:
> > A. This is NOT a call to rewrite everything in Rust. This work will
> > only permit NEW, OPTIONAL components to be written.
> > B. Other languages/toolchains/ecosystems could be supported, not
> > just Rust.
> > C. Initial focus is on userland components. Rust in the kernel is
> > out of scope for this initial proof-of-concept.
> > D. I would like to see Rust in the kernel. That would be a good
> > next area of focus once userland support reaches some level of
> > maturity.
> >
> > My first goal will be to get a better understanding of
> > src.git/Makefile and src.git/Makefile.inc1. As I study that, I'll also
> > study your work, Alan. I really appreciate the time you have taken. I
> > might reach out to you and Warner directly for further questions.
>=20
> Relying on an external toolchain and allowing for future external
> toolchains other than Rust sounds like a really good plan.
> Conceivably we could even ditch our Lua import and use the same
> mechanism for that (but please, save Lua discussion for a separate
> flame war ;) ).
If you're saying that it means that you've never looked at how lua
works.
> I anticipate that the next big decisions will be
> "what components are so important that they musn't require an external
> toolchain?" and "how much cargo crate bloat is too much?". But we can
> cross those bridges when we come to them. I look forward to seeing
> your work, and please don't hesitate to ask for help.
>=20
> -Alan
>=20
Isn't the next big decision "How to handle external rust toolchain" ?
Because without this solved everything all you rust lovers said in
this (and previous) thread is irrelevant.
Cheers,
--=20
Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> <manu@freebsd.org>
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