From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Nov 3 03:58:31 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D03B0E6B3B2 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 03:58:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9394D76958 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2017 03:58:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id m81so3495512ioi.13 for ; Thu, 02 Nov 2017 20:58:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=Ho6KNVCYaR2onhzgNBj6Gspyj9SajxCXRrNvfYw5ghA=; b=Z7NfGIvBbgK9Rl7JUyr8633NW9WMe1HNpd/s1rJTjhbinnYHHcermY6dGyRw6vvabV h9HaGNHGNPYlqn5gSuE7y5UzQ2x5YhwYHjL7wkpw2sFlIQpv8H4+3TABddQPJ4U9NVFx t1kQkgC9bOfS3e3J6njP3ytsKHwsU93PJoLCpLaV54GL/F4Tusm9fsoZdw/fwREijCH4 xCvnFwWlVhg+UcLk66u8JBS0M8lIgkWzOtIUFq/PqKK7xgvdCnnKopkzVtdIiW46YNj+ UHA7uOKRGX6A9wbPH6jP0sC+LWGJCM+kWwS9TuLW42PiksFyy3sJboMI3gGhskTbDX4J hYJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ho6KNVCYaR2onhzgNBj6Gspyj9SajxCXRrNvfYw5ghA=; b=t9tKhWUraFu6m2DA06LM7xU+ApEjYzScqWg9ufQ58jLmAKJtrbmNkFLCczpp+vNLM/ DuGmExpQDMvc/XJllLFRc6ljdcnN23Qffq/axVhwyRWKfYLVq3NKSKe6iDNsPp9XLm3Q GdlepTQakV3947Od1c1dqxL/tSojT5+6fHju8duVIzD97WEogMQ30pjH1iZb22tp/5IK DAomc6F8yg4h6Ltn/q8FyCixaZh7VqGFgEZy70HggPOyTNcaWJ7L7/d/dzv/VVH2D9yD GpIDvrSuKigEwhAN4vh0GanGQI+GiMBhArJ7Tw0u7j2qPfMZGaQqX8fd+zY03JY3mxDu JYig== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6nPlPceGkQEQkFx4yQgO2eWe6vl1cfUQUh9Yaxs4qa/TwoXbel uugfdT2K//KpP2zRuUHtOSdu64+logRV5uarJKakug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RczUBRhxSX+1DIVhZoOPltOWIIGqcWv5mcEc/1vUSnAFt7Y1B5hAF+Y5DZmD93crmplY6B8qzbDPBMwo7jFKs= X-Received: by 10.107.48.76 with SMTP id w73mr7499546iow.301.1509681510654; Thu, 02 Nov 2017 20:58:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.57.22 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:58:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:a004:68c9:b567:b3a8] In-Reply-To: <20171103035010.GA89291@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <3045EEBF-09E6-4209-B54F-2F95394DBA82@FreeBSD.org> <20171103014907.GA88522@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <68BECDA4-C182-436E-854C-C3B19ABB4373@FreeBSD.org> <20171103022327.GA88659@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <998FF503-D4B0-4AD5-AD55-98680E4D66CA@FreeBSD.org> <20171103035010.GA89291@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 21:58:29 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: w6v6YhhJJ2tn4ba4Gq8Aya1J5WU Message-ID: Subject: Re: Head build unsafe for /etc today To: Steve Kargl Cc: Bryan Drewery , freebsd-hackers , FreeBSD Toolchain , FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 03:58:31 -0000 On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Steve Kargl < sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 07:41:21PM -0700, Bryan Drewery wrote: > > > > Are you accusing me of lying? > > > > Nope. I'm stating the obvious. If you are using > META_MODE and you do "make buildwould" that is > equivalent to "make -DNO_CLEAN buildworld", which > means you did not rebuild the *world*. > > When I see a commit message of the form (and I've > haven't seen one like this in 25+ years of using > FreeBSD (aka 386BSD+patchkit)) > > Author: bdrewery > Date: Thu Nov 2 22:23:00 2017 > New Revision: 325347 > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/325347 > > Log: > Something is very wrong > > Modified: > head/Makefile > > Modified: head/Makefile > ============================================================ > ================== > --- head/Makefile Thu Nov 2 21:58:18 2017 (r325346) > +++ head/Makefile Thu Nov 2 22:23:00 2017 (r325347) > @@ -1,3 +1,4 @@ > +.error Bad revision, please wait for a fix in head > > It suggests that whomever did the commit did not properly test > the patch. The use of META_MODE (or any other shortcut) when > testing simply isn't proper testing. FreeBSD has grown too big to test every possible thing before you commit. Lord knows the number of make universes I've done is maybe 1/100th the number of commits (or less) I've made. We all take short cuts, or fail to exhaustively test every single possible thing, or have some environmental contamination that normally isn't a problem but masks an issue, or forget to add a file / directory, or a hundred other things that can and do go wrong. It happens. It will happen again. I just hope to never again be the last person to break the tree before BSDcan again, but I live in fear that I'll miss something because I know I'm human. Personally, I think that this commit was the responsible thing to do: He'd just committed several changes. It wasn't clear which one needed to be backed out. While he tracked down the root cause, he put in counter measures to make sure that nobody else got bitten by the bug he himself encountered when he was further testing the system. He then resolved it by fixing the root cause, but I know that had he not been able to do so, he'd have backed things out. Part of being in this project is recognizing that and allowing the occasional oops to happen w/o making an unduly large case out of it... Warner Warner