From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 23:45:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F2B15A597E for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72E57672E for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9792815A5979; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7382915A5978 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD2CC76728 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id d8so1119373lfb.8 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=multiplay-co-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WoYWoujmJ9Eb0/yRXHQhV1vbONqyQ2OQiKw/cYojH74=; b=DbfnqZAjF4HUI0XReIT1/HUBvNOYspmcYRn2FX0Zab7pUEyipPGdNQlqwAkB3njMHW aI1ztla8GIOY70WjjSj8rcltshttgM8h85nBwANqUgr1t6A+FtF55TqXWY36Nm3ujZbr L7JHXx8DDKk/JLSBeKH0CJmu+otzFBtBPPtrHMrsVQgNVcASttVLSjUIGFQFWjtWN8JN lr4WinGRuPhUQ8BDMOLTcA5LofW0qHQav+1p/SbYjO6oanmQIRXf42pMpHl7rk8FN96G 95iaS9Niks2xzwNO64ZRAlodJvKkiFBgsj6Agn0vPgEMBUsU3DlPMr6a0uku2huJnyl+ W9PA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WoYWoujmJ9Eb0/yRXHQhV1vbONqyQ2OQiKw/cYojH74=; b=Jj4Oo1chxET8oEJ5UVVlXX05J95Q64GaQAkXEpfWxrz+qZGRks2L9hnYf1+0h1NNBS YQU7DXhf7ODczi9O1d3kjZsXkKui/ZGN/L5zSSs7zCQPvYV7YA5dUkVYTqMPbJvjCpvV Fru04lp91N1eelsMgVk6KnjREThX5OyPlyuMxcYOIdRlQfuJTl4SUI8fSEdNGmErf6Qb uCMw4L2d0YfQAz5mLl2xmyX0Y0INPcjQIDVzwV/FqLkhMXZM6TRu5BIg+aGoRdoh4Dyg i4ck2rh6AHss7y0EOOkOQ5/t6pFtVrxJVGrBTtZCTOVEGsn4d4M5o22jXT4Gdfb3QrCE Kx1A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUClEz//hrX+ObomtfS2PuQp1NvLg4OI9Ev+DLPbH9p4fe8R+zf Cl5O4B8IgH9QUJzeBOeBCMVrAxIm6MhgYLIBigOajA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy/1qqvY8SjK/EMA6HnhqYT/DifwKK4HcD2LbmC0SzbXyVaVy18p/7WHYD8irokCNbfEGQ2BmDA3JUqS3wNIi0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:29c4:: with SMTP id p187mr21870236lfp.69.1557963941705; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:45:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Steven Hartland Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 00:45:29 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CD2CC76728 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.95 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.947,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:46 -0000 Is disagree, having them hatched causes us less work not more, as others have said one update not many, which result in one outage of systems that need patching not many. Regards Steve On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 16:48, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, Reference: > > From: Alan Somers > > Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600 > > Alan Somers wrote: > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:26 AM Julian H. Stacey > wrote: > > > > > > Hi core@, > > > cc hackers@ & stable@ > > > > > > PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." > > > > > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html > > > > > > Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; > > > But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch > floods > > > damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack > them. > > > > > > Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. > > > No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: > > > Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start > > > mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are > > > most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades > > > to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, > > > bosses & customers. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Julian > > > -- > > > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich > Aachen Kent > > > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in > EU. > > > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers > died. > > > > I disagree, Julian. I think SAs are easier to deal with when they're > > batched. True, I can't fix the first one in less than 3 minutes. But > > then I probably wouldn't even notice it that fast. Batching them all > > together means fewer updates and reboots. > > Batching also means some of these vulnerabilities could have been > fixed earlier & less of a surge of demand on recipient admins time. > > An admin can find time to ameliorate 1 bug, not 8 suddenly together. > Avoidance is called planning ahead. Giving warning of a workload. > Like an admin plans ahead & announces an outage schedule for planned > upgrade. > > Suddenly dumping 8 on admins causes overload on admin manpower. > 8 reason for users to approach admin in parallel & say > "FreeBSD seems riddled, how long will all the sudden unplanned > outages take ? Should we just dump it ?" > Dont want negative PR & lack of management. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen > Kent > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers > died. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >