From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 26 10:04:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9DA16A4CE for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 007CC43FBF for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:04:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hAQI4KCD041942; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:04:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031126061932.GA9451@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> References: <20031027214510.GA52000@kosmos.mynet> <20031027223648.GC1004@zi025.glhnet.mhn.de> <20031028000708.GA52155@kosmos.mynet> <20031028004319.GF1004@zi025.glhnet.mhn.de> <20031125072702.GG340@freepuppy.bellavista.cz> <20031125064404.GA38625@kosmos.my.net> <20031125193010.GB67289@freepuppy.bellavista.cz> <20031125094426.GA39119@kosmos.my.net> <20031125222426.GA3585@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> <20031125152800.GA40176@kosmos.my.net> <20031126061932.GA9451@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:50:08 +0100 To: Erik Trulsson From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in ports howto question X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:04:56 -0000 At 7:19 AM +0100 2003/11/26, Erik Trulsson quoted Allan Bowhill: >> Minus time, you should be able to see that the skill sets of system >> administration skills and programming are mutually exclusive. The two >> activities are so distinct, that you cannot do both at the same time. > > And here lies the linguistical problem with your argumentation. One of many problems. Just because the activities of system administration and programming may be mutually exclusive (you cannot perform both kinds of activities at the same time), this has no bearing whatsoever on the question of whether or not the skillsets are mutually exclusive. I would argue that there are certain types of tasks which fall within the category of both system administration or programming at the same time, and what makes that a "programming" activity versus a "system administration" activity is the broader context in which that function is being performed. For example, are you cp'ing that file during the process of developing a program, or in the context of administering a system on which the file might be completely unrelated to anything else that it is that you are personally doing? Indeed, it is quite clear that there is a great deal of overlap between the two skillsets -- in order to do either function, you need to know how to think critically. You need to know how to solve problems. Of course, these high-level skills further depend on so many lower-level skills. >> You can be a sysadmin with great programming skills. But when you write >> code to automate systems administration tasks, you are programming. Again, this mistaken identification of the activity as the skill itself. While there are many activities that may be mutually exclusive with other activities, a single person may very well possess multiple skillsets which may or may not be related, in order to be able to perform the activities in question. > Writing code to automate a system administration task is programming. > It is also system administration. I do not see that these are > distinct. It's certainly a fuzzy issue. I can see arguments for considering it to be one or the other, or both. I think that the answer to this question would be largely a personal one, and most reasonable parties would agree to disagree. > As you can see I disagree with your notion that system administration > and programming are two distinct activities, but rather believe that > many tasks fall into both categories at once. Agreed. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++)