From nobody Tue Nov 21 20:23:37 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SZbRv4BgTz52F1v for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 20:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SZbRv3QpQz3KqQ for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 20:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1700598219; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=C4Q5ZmworGsFcZTUCtTF0gFy9uCaK8Yvb8JZKIvPIt8=; b=HZsilBJRjTbeGGgX/11u+a3A62kbbzXyq61+Ocrexii3dcKMcAtqAQyx4t14IqD1LRda2X l/2oC15YyJ9HS3i6AxlkLrWBaDzYPTobT9rri67bRbjknC93nNdPctOBigkbRs7pc93N7e 7I7I8RmX3uqvV3uoW+7KKvn1q7u80Hr1r5/7OCzKoDBGPUIh6UqJw5P9h2wU7LjBDI7vfV 4OwUmaROh7IvNEjR46tgsU8aZtM5JmqNqHrp78hGHvYUrbH9A5KdiPgkTbIFM36Cj+Ired 87jydaKzky6IX29bC5aqwAqpSxvRTwMr4TDbrFmF1EO7OmiSKiZrK5lzSji+ug== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1700598219; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=C4Q5ZmworGsFcZTUCtTF0gFy9uCaK8Yvb8JZKIvPIt8=; b=IvLDvjUhEZxWczxg1xFUTSMUY7DxLUQn0l3zF45dNRaHkuTrPsnuWRDB0y3R4KcXREsKvA yXmg/1KP7+/DV2l+N/q6owd5+T1Nl3AkF7R8toCeVLf2c90Qdlj5NRLwMR80ZoCEADAox5 WFm+RjL/Aq9kVdqXpKF8wYkbE6+lfN2w7hDrXBB71mGLzCAHaR4dTTR/oQu2Fy6h7E4cHF 8L46V5zAE7lBqMgtD6v8mltxhrqxVLjm7j7hu0JXWOJjsIlW5VMHdZk0gyBDAMxLnxW2yy DKsbXGeHTE8RE/1cEfNe/vKe1cddjlIg/RzcTVsTsbBLoMkVsl9HWP9U6Aqx3g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1700598219; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=iahS8jCqNvdo51P0RUVVVtj+pHArWgOKKESWdNhLqIuVnRsox0H514IYe4cxD1BImTCEvV go6g1Z2t9KY8c/gtwYZDeXfx2l+BkR0xqPUipcdnudqORYQAO5YzaGTvEBURoSo5aKE1mT +43/VPGu6D335qigFH3tlP8gYqhwDZnSzHEVwbgVI6Uev6WtZwUMO2cn18cHFBUOCIzxzd 5JVY6xNH6iQQ5/SR6moJF7BjQhhWNHI5+AGyPA+0ikLRNuvOhGAuvK9Za/vJeNKke1mp3X Tv53p2oq9B07Fe6aX6levhdYftTWz24hCDTwwqjzCs7y0I5dQJagqFC/TbNWIQ== Received: from [10.9.4.95] (unknown [209.182.120.176]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: kevans/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4SZbRv1PFWz1RGK for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 20:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <034f6daa-1067-4ac6-8428-8705db2f6fe0@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2023 14:23:37 -0600 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: I am sick and tired of the poor quality of documentation on FreeBSD Content-Language: en-US To: questions@freebsd.org References: From: Kyle Evans In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 11/21/23 14:12, Paul Procacci wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 2:51 PM > wrote: > > Take a look at how it's done on OpenBSD! Take a look at have it's > done on Arch Linux! > > When there is something that is going to break something during an > upgrade, you get timely information and a step by step instruction > in what to do - BEFORE you do it! > > Something like this doesn't help! >   Pool 'zroot' has the bootfs property set, you might need to > update the boot code. >   See gptzfsboot(8) and loader.efi(8) for details. > > I might need to update the boot code!? WTF does that even mean? > >  I never touched any boot code during installation so I don't even > know what that is! And reading those man pages did NOT help me in > any way. > > So now I got a box that's borked with this beautiful message after > updating the zroot pool: > > ZFS: unsupported feature: com.delphix:head_errlog > ZFS: pool zroot is not supported > Can't find /boot/zfsloader > Can't find /boot/loader > Can't find /boot/kernel/kernel > > > > > You failed to, in your own words, "get timely information and a step by > step instruction in what to do - BEFORE you _did_ it!" > > You're now suffering with the errors that you cause upon yourself. > I'm not a fan of the overall attitude towards them (their concern isn't completely unfounded, not that I like their tone either), but I agree with the overall sentiment. The e-mail that started this thread is a lot less helpful than the e-mail that could have been sent instead if they had stopped when they realized they didn't understand from the information given- to figure out what the ramifications of proceeding are (surely this upgrade wasn't that urgent) and point out that documentation actually isn't as helpful as one might think to a user of a different background. > Quite literally 1000's upon 1000's upgrade their machines daily I'd > gather.  You are the odd man out.  See the problem here? > > ~Paul > Thanks, Kyle Evans