From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Feb 14 22:30:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19573244902 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic307-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic307-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48K7PG5lNpz4Lsc for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:30:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: agHVg30VM1kHS.a57bTLJpCZN_b1.EfSvz2aP0M7e9twbLfpup.3yrk4nNSpa3z 3NYHJ9708O9xaxer.CD6eb3svtM50oz6K6xn8CA..MIrfVDDp2O.4JPhWPgjS9JSjYfj5KuCp7pC _WYcVVLSLjkJRO3oD9EJRQjTStOvDfhxKbERpSxoNxwqNwKV78c6VGeTyQLpMaVobfd7f7NpccPZ 8Kt53pfaJJ_wvdh6IEurBqO1hTmfEn_XtmLdmt4zx101q0VaQ9Vqwof7tTYCT8TsI.4DNkvthO1G LG65QXYTfguCYFSTpux3JJqE3wF0H3Cr2CnwPsk2_wyJOJKj9mjVo5FIrtPGneXhiMToGleq3b4Z j8q.eGp8fcQV6KxhqMkpKPGnxMRsDR89wFxLtqIgMMrAEQ1JaTHrszQvIu6tSS.uVpEX8gDCxE4c cdQ5MurWsFKw923ci9tDpXQ4CU4tURwhbKJB45yg6ahqBkkvlVDzGB5Iw8CAsqm33dv44NMoN22S yxzjTQiKIQ5oenTW4N76g0ypRwQr_8LZHPueWd9Nrata_cTGz6Zxf3tJTs4wS8jlN.F_vbDG5rWm jUnEKREmQzC0_W0q3Pbfwt4ifCI8prGsLMyp11uJ4PiX898wbWtf0NukuPupXPHYztk0XXD_.tOX qXJryVTJ.SKUEegEMWZjQKLn2PbyFdgWjoHakKtyJRUNrO0C_OxKsAFQgM88x.SJSsCk0s8Pi7_n NHql7zM99CdI6qVkj1NIvpdOrJssnYCaEvMcEzsqfP8BRv5QEK7OXJvqGjKDrM85bEh5WiC.VpO7 vZXccjDnR6HJpiHiLlqajOzK2uY6xnTBkTMF2tjJBd8XWG9zGBxkGXKeYFQpMRlQBjGMWMsAxXKN 4Wi.KFtVYTA6zPmMcEz.8874asNd9EVHze4XbsHftdZ6I60iuc1hAm5jpQJ9s_iSnnOnC2eK4ZDg khDEGRPNPC4BL7M_.T_WPrkAygcSkJpWMzLUgKeZsy2dpBBVOvb3EzKGpOx9sy3FpYx.Yslg8k4t Dr6cgSr71XwpsKAs4MkHOP3kw9jIfR1nhGSFPHmG8xmKpLdiNS0attTjcJvP2alQfKaIXHkhDbVL LDVpCkEozbGSd9C5jpJLA8Ee6E4ZEp4wMNlBG_MihpTItrNw6vDuHOSLKtthz0d7k1oDDQD1tKpC gGSzxfscb4n11yN5CmAx49lvbwwiFc9RUypOmZFoTufa0SRqwxaMRSfInGtYKvGKyWY6YTjNidxD U6tXe3JnfUyiErI6Y1epP8JmspzTGJnM4Qllz9883tvVwJj2JiBZGuMAodOF_c15Z08JIizxf4EY EX534IsVl_yAxeYRllKIwg3tTqI2gWDP8DH644FJy7PF776W677zIp7lLqOx9SL0WqLg- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:30:25 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:30:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Victor Sudakov , Alejandro Imass Cc: FreeBSD Questions Message-ID: <1848571509.3253011.1581719423989@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20200214121620.GA80657@admin.sibptus.ru> Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15199 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:73.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/73.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48K7PG5lNpz4Lsc X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.07 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.38)[-0.380,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[33.190.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.45)[0.453,0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.45), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.16), asn: 36646(0.93), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:30:28 -0000 Hi, If you're trying to convince management, I'd suggest researching who has ba= sed their products on FreeBSD....List of products based on FreeBSD |=20 |=20 | |=20 List of products based on FreeBSD | | | The 'Unknown Giant' is an apropos tagline.=C2=A0 People don't know what's r= unning under the hood.=C2=A0 Many commercial products steer entirely clear = of GPL licensed FOSS due to what it entails.=C2=A0 If you were to start dev= eloping a product on a BSD licensed product, there's very little issues wit= h future support of it or releasing you proprietary tweaks of you product.= =C2=A0 No such thing with GPL.=C2=A0 (ok... that's simplified but....) Longevity is another big one.=C2=A0 BSD has existed in some form since 1974= .=C2=A0 FreeBSD since 1994. Paul On Friday, February 14, 2020, 11:27:50 AM EST, Alejandro Imass wrote: =20 =20 On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 7:16 AM Victor Sudakov wrote: > What other features do we have to (persuade the management to) prefer > FreeBSD for new installations? > > Thing is that most of the industry is moving away from bare metal and into the cloud and in that sense Linux (particularly Ubuntu Server) is the defacto standard it seems. The reason I moved to FreeBSD like around 2006 was that Linux's virtual memory manager was not very good at that time and whenever you force Linux to swap it usually left the system unstable and required reboot. Whereas FreeBSD you push it to the max (99%+ of swap) and would always recover. And this was way back in FreeBSD 6 and I can only guess it's gotten better, whereas Linux probably is not worrying too much about this since most Linux servers today in AWS don't even have swap, and what for, since they act mostly as a POSIX API on top of multiple layers of virtualized shit. After we made the move, discovering EzJail was the killer feature for us. We were basically doing all the stuff people are doing nowadays with Docker and Terraform etc. We had these kind of flexible and powerful CI/CD pipelines with FreeBSD when these terms weren't even coined as such. That's why I laugh at my younger colleagues who think they are more advanced than what we were doing 14 years ago. And that's the issue with this industry is all the FADs and wheel reinvention. It's the same thing with languages for example. Perl 5 and plain ol C are probably still superior to anything out there today, and only now are we seeing some true advancement in the right direction (e.g. Rust, Go etc.). So if you ask me FreeBSD could probably focus away from this cloud FAD and continue to evolve it's very powerful features and target people that have not gave into this cloud bullshit, and to real sysadmins who are not afraid of taking responsibility instead of hiding behind AWS or Azure. Let them go down that path, and let us focus on reality and bare metal. IMHO, BSD could invest in taking projects like EzJail (plus ZFS) to make this functionality native and EASY, provide an images database and the infrastructure to provide a NATIVE, bare metal equivalent to Docker + Terraform. In other words, FreeBSD and other BSD projects could offer NATIVE and modern CI/CD and IaaS pipelines on bare metal. Just food for thought. Best, --=20 Alex _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Feb 14 22:31:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79EBB244B42 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:31:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl) Received: from mailout4.ceti.pl (mailout6.ceti.pl [62.121.128.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48K7QP4t6Mz4M2M for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:31:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl) Received: from tau1.ceti.pl (tau.ceti.pl [62.121.128.11]) by mailout4.ceti.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E923781220 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:31:22 +0100 (CET) Received: by tau1.ceti.pl (Postfix, from userid 3727) id D84B2960AB8; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:31:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:31:22 +0100 From: Tomasz Rola To: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200214223122.GB20932@tau1.ceti.pl> References: <20200214121620.GA80657@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200214195430.25365f87@moonstudio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200214195430.25365f87@moonstudio> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48K7QP4t6Mz4M2M X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl has no SPF policy when checking 62.121.128.46) smtp.mailfrom=rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.55 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ceti.pl]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.39)[0.391,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.79)[0.787,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[rtomek@ceti.pl,rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15541, ipnet:62.121.128.0/20, country:PL]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[rtomek@ceti.pl,rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl]; IP_SCORE(0.18)[ipnet: 62.121.128.0/20(0.45), asn: 15541(0.36), country: PL(0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 22:31:26 -0000 On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 07:54:30PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > Hi, > [...] > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 08:03:06 -0600, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > >Add to that binary logs > > "Tip: While the journal is stored in a binary format, the content of > stored messages is not modified. This means it is viewable with > strings, for example for recovery in an environment which does not have > systemd installed, e.g.: > > $ strings /mnt/arch/var/log/journal/af4967d77fba44c6b093d0e9862f6ddd/system.journal | grep -i message > " - https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd/Journal The choice of words suggests they were writing this tip with straight faces. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **