From nobody Sun Jan 14 18:14:16 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TCk2531mRz56pJV for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:14:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pmh@hausen.com) Received: from mail2.pluspunkthosting.de (mail2.pluspunkthosting.de [217.29.33.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TCk2505Mbz4dkQ for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:14:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pmh@hausen.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple (87.138.185.145) by mail2.pluspunkthosting.de (Axigen) with (ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted) ESMTPSA id 14A499; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 19:14:27 +0100 From: "Patrick M. Hausen" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\)) Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 19:14:16 +0100 References: <4014880.cjyAsbXg9l@ravel> To: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <14AED5F5-CC24-4A04-89A6-F43628CE563F@hausen.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TCk2505Mbz4dkQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16188, ipnet:217.29.32.0/20, country:DE] Hi folks, that's a really interesting polite and constructive discussion going on here, and a trip down history lane to boot :-) I just want to add one thing to Warner's last argument: > Am 14.01.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Warner Losh : > Though in all honesty, I've never been able to measure a speed difference. > Nor have I worn out a ssd due to the tiny increase in write amp. Recently on the OPNsense forum somehow an increasing number of users started to post worried questions regarding a constant write load on the system disk/SSD in the order of 100 kB/s or some small multitude thereof. Definitely smaller than 1MB/s. That number at first looks like a serious load on the write endurance of your SSD. Then, doing the math it turns out it's absolutely ridiculous. 100 kB/s sums up to 8,640 GB/day (in decimal units). Even the small SSDs typically used for embedded devices like firewalls (32 or 64 G capacity) have a write endurance in the order of 100 or 200 TBW. That's more than 10.000 days or roughly 30 years ... That's why I like following this discussion and every improvement is in then end an improvement, but I consider it mostly a micro optimisation. Kind regards, Patrick P.S. I don't use atime anywhere I knew.