From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:17:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F70D106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:17:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4CA8FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:17:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaat11 with SMTP id t11so4175964qaa.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=rdMWovogNKfnyOEWNRHPjAiU4fNfh2w1aKz5tY/SD4Q=; b=PCShxOxyqd5gtF2K5eqCUaVuWkpDOneBYEeLIJbyrcUmHq3tsMFnT7Q3NQ1MvsjtfH MwoJXOMv6QBo2GS3gWwVsos0tb4uHWhmIxiPQkT0ilt3xrNuENa6J5/ZEEUcD0oq6ZHM sA3GFBkPZBfJ1H1DP1vnR3USnkkqVeePnQ3AhYtNpjitWMQ1zH0l966+xzU6/2s8eMmf cMXGjEmHacNhLWHOdMr27yVgSad2WwRM0ZIW05kMkpk5YPdOiTlCM65nVQ5wNLrPXINB dJ2ZcxjQwEu74H4E/oKZfxTTy8xQTB5Pt2GMm0bWRkmV2cu7BNo56Xda66ARE0gizjS/ MToA== Received: by 10.224.187.6 with SMTP id cu6mr31346343qab.63.1341512242542; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bo5sm13970083qab.1.2012.07.05.11.17.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:17:19 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120705141719.0fa97268@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlC5Mh1IDxBJDkiZpYHPw3X07mHhDTL6QEN4fAb4W2sDTolBL6RL+iY2mdgFddD+Ju0C/Tc Cc: Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:17:23 -0000 On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:08:36 -0700 Eitan Adler wrote: > The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this > means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific. This is *not* what Unix has historically been. Historically, Unix has a history of being "expert-friendly" - because people are experts a lot longer than they are new users. If you want a Unix optimized to attract new users, there's Ubuntu. If you want a system built that way, there's Windows. The system should be optimized for experts. The environment that new users are placed in can be optimized for them. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org