From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 22 06:32:04 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629D11065680 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:32:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx22.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D468FC13 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:32:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 23823 invoked by uid 399); 22 Jan 2009 06:32:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?192.168.0.19?) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPAM; 22 Jan 2009 06:32:02 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Sender: dougb@dougbarton.us Message-ID: <497812FB.3050100@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:32:27 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pete Carah References: <20090119215959.GA1185@port3.altadena.net> In-Reply-To: <20090119215959.GA1185@port3.altadena.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kris@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Big problems with 7.1 locking up :-( X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:32:04 -0000 Pete Carah wrote: > I have done some (lots of) kernel debugging in the past. I have several > points: > > 1. I shouldn't *have* to kernel debug for a normal usage of an > official release. Um, why not? We certainly put every possible effort into making sure that releases (and in fact stable branches in general) do not regress, but it is inevitable that with the extraordinarily wide range of hardware and workloads that run FreeBSD there will be regressions. Mark has already commented on the need for wider community review of release candidates, so I won't go there. Helping the community understand and hopefully fix the problem when something goes pear-shaped for you is part of the "price" of free software. If you're unwilling (or unable, as you indicate below) to pay that price, you may just have to find another tool for the job. > 2. One of the soekris boxes is 2800 MILES away, in a remote location, That's what serial consoles and remote power switches are for. It's not our fault if you don't have access to those. > 3. I can't afford the time to debug my tools (freebsd is a tool, not an > experiment, for lots of people, including me...) I use this laptop at > work in a place where I am *not* working on freebsd. (nor am I even allowed > to at work...) Doug (who's still a volunteer, last time I checked) -- This .signature sanitized for your protection