From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 16 21:46:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C95A106566B for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:46:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069C88FC0A for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:46:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iea17 with SMTP id 17so5888362iea.13 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:46:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=H3lVsF2lerZZ7hiKJbwM0v4WZUEH5TId4SXMBroJF5g=; b=EEX+yReKYeQ0jilsTvEJcCvRDIY3ix9c1+myoEgKn5muk/k7NxrKYWiL8Y0V68nwLP ClkCG8Pd/wgeDPRSZekydsju2SvVAqC5F3vsdK33wQKmXWbfgFBA7JZ/gQBNXwYv33PU 0N5HAwPjEvBM+X8TVdAanrWfzJMpfdvUBoZRrTctkKtm7IaJKp3jTgIuucfqE0EuEQhG 8CUyydiNf8472zy6zNIVbdRVVPt1l14BuLBCb0ozuSvGyK2cdWK8NeFElo6/hC+JxB9c MwfwyZJWKnYbXFlRpg79xyJsjME+xc5vT/1lInGPRaOdyvVdeEDNJMuLRosQwkUW2OvV vc3w== Received: by 10.50.183.135 with SMTP id em7mr5065452igc.31.1347831960231; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 10sm13410873igf.11.2012.09.16.14.45.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <50563EA6.1050908@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:45:57 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <99E30CDE-AC9D-4615-8830-5EC511EE1BBB@bsdimp.com> References: <20120916053523.GJ37286@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <51B48339-D1FA-49CD-B582-1C58855B024E@bsdimp.com> <50563EA6.1050908@FreeBSD.org> To: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn4yylLSnGOgwg4/fj3iP379HQykV3o8jqT6XVA9Prmz6lWh1aUnTW/9RMsKVl1Qp1E/kaO Cc: Konstantin Belousov , Eitan Adler , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fallout from the CVS discussion X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:46:01 -0000 On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 09/16/2012 09:03, Warner Losh wrote: >> One of the things we are trying to move towards is that current can = be cut into a release branch on short notice. We need to keep it as = close to production ready as possible. People >=20 > I find your response here interesting Warner, given that when I have > opposed what I felt were too-drastic changes in HEAD (such as removing > sysinstall before a post-install configuration solution was ready) = your > response has been, "It's HEAD, we can break things ... let's see what > happens!" sysinstall replacement was a different discussion, with differing = technical criteria. Also, using it against me now for consistency likely isn't so good. I = think we moved too quickly, in retrospect, on that. That experience = suggests we be more cautious in the future, including for things like = this. > Now that you are the one opposed to the change, we need to > keep HEAD "close to production ready." Look at bz's push in this area. Also, I'm not opposed to this change, = just opposed to this change today, as explained elsewhere. > There is a compromise solution here that I have been hesitant to offer > because I was really hoping that sanity would prevail. But why not > switch the default MK_CVS knob over to "no" now? That will give us an > opportunity to see if there really will be any fallout, and easily fix > it if there is. I believe that's already been done. Warner