From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 28 10:40:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B443A5A35 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:40:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BGCqv4Qp5z4DRy for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:40:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BGCqY0fhmzFf0G for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 03:40:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1595932825; bh=OWQOcIs9MMOPNNb2u/BCt6vbyDqzENnzxHuc6LejpHM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=mcBggJZiVF4ufo/LmsJe+pMPkIk6LsZfdRw2mNtXHhL4tb65RiZlWfSOWm+5TcZid a3vsBpD1GbLKwaqKi7j7eTrC/oQLNfA/pLSmokfMX64l6vf4eYmodzDiU34NtE5lTE cYjaxvEBcsW2FVavf6oSibGlAUQeRG/Ol2Z9m+N4= X-Riseup-User-ID: 74C9965335F0D6DA3159B2BD4A6B4B064E36D22C3DD0870B1E2AC104AB2ED475 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BGCqX4LVGzJqVg for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 03:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 12:40:08 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ask stupid questions and you'll get a stupid answers, was: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200728124008.2b43ee7f@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20200214121620.GA80657@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200214141600.GA82559@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200214204838.360c8f624397c659946bd764@sohara.org> <20200215063818.GE1482@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200215083359.367d8a3e9ddb4942df67d5b5@sohara.org> <58202623-bbf7-eda0-5cb5-fb4749e91e20@watters.ws> <6318251A-973A-4DEC-9271-12333EB11F7B@kicp.uchicago.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BGCqv4Qp5z4DRy X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=mcBggJZi; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.66 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.02)[-1.024]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.008]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:40:28 -0000 On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 17:25:29 +0800, Wesley Peng wrote: >=ED=99=A9=EB=B3=91=ED=9D=AC wrote: >> Sorry for late. Currently Linux is good with Wayland. Wayland is >> future for *NIX users i think. =20 > >Do you mean this one? >https://wayland.freedesktop.org/ > >Will wayland make linux desktop as stable as mac osx? This is another stupid question! Stable for what kind of usage? Do you consider "osx" as stable or unstable? Stable as in not really customizable and being forced to use a desktop that doesn't fit to your needs? Yes! AFAIK Wayland does not provide all features available by X. You e.g. can't write a script to customize e.g. the focused window on demand. You have got no impact on keyboard input, keyboard map, can't move or resize a dedicated window by scripts. On Linux I'm using X and a window manager. I wrote scripts to use different monitors with different sizes and frequencies, transforming or not transforming ratio etc., scripts for keyboard shortcuts that e.g. resize the focused window. Etc. pp., some of it is probably possible using Wayland, too, but just to some degree. I'm using iPadOS for a 12.9-inch display. I changed the font size to be able to read the smallest fonts when wearing my + 2.0 dpt reading glasses. Some apps are still using fonts that I hardly can read using a magnifier, if I can read them at all, since font size is not really customizable, it's just customizable to some degree. "Some degree" is not enough for me. A lot of apps don't support Wayland. IIUC they can be used by kind of a bridge, that introduces a lot of issues. You shouldn't expect that all projects will migrate to Wayland. When major changes happened to Linux a lot of projects migrated to the new conditions, but some important, indispensable projects got lost forever. I suspect that Wayland will be a reason to migrate to another OS, to get back something important that will get lost. "OS X) is a series of proprietary graphical operating systems developed and marketed by Apple Inc. since 2001. It is the primary operating system for Apple's Mac computers." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS AFAIK there are no proprietary graphics drivers available for Wayland, so you get all the optimisation for your graphics, that is or isn't provided by a FLOSS driver. I'm for making changes to an OS, but not everything new is a good change and even something good might introduce disadvantages.