From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Oct 8 17:25:09 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D7C10C58FB for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:25:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from staroscik@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83FAD7364B for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:25:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from staroscik@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id y16so21697247wrw.3 for ; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jHps4r9r2sB7gnUUUAZpZaJebhENTmcrW8oY699i2io=; b=rodrFZodbxJdU/IQ/5oDac7DkKl1Nw3Db08KeEQfLL4WIhzlQgUPwaR7945bXU1YOh IMyusbM1UwTHEY+0jxb+CsJVK7a5JzW31gpA0OY3S2JD6jCp1LcDJTTZJ3NdtKYnPnQ8 CONeot29hXFt/Cd2z/qD16LyQY4Y1rN+zUBmxfLG5p4w9Bmtrf0OASVxzE9G0eMY7FzQ h6dUcanylQOm8na66YfHZPZRWVVPkbseymclABZ6kArTEEbO6qcQ6K5qXY7iR0uxhrIu t18PoENt3Pboevb7r73XSI6Ueh2S9SzxlufU5wemFv620kHgwUj8fr2hYcFsMiVpp5i0 9jSA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jHps4r9r2sB7gnUUUAZpZaJebhENTmcrW8oY699i2io=; b=WR/gs9JUQ0aylZA5pmmcmLrD69fXvnwpzX0qS7A9514/8og9IW8oo6o6yIg/nDtZsX 2GGTNeAYFDv1JYcZesOwogAJYSnxHqHj2GMJRbsErscl/6bY0CH6leP7ZxOVOxcHqzYM auRxFwwBtjMcNFbiFYko4VzW1KpxLMR+Kz5bQGqjRoTI8MPzl5SSzOti4yFc1dFbe6Hd t6a4tTfMD0qlxS50YAduNmp3/qPMDXJ9yGpXE9ieshBqtpBeJhKwCKXzknsCIlrFnlMC iQN7WyjNQa3oN6U3X/J4Y/DqEZ2zyJMI/ELJoj8A2PH63IP6ZWJ+A5utqScxhtyFHHpS /Wsw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoj5I6JuPPtd8psq57cUMt4qsgO4LWTJAwFLJ7D4Q4SouCVRKErw 9TXQTO+erzAq1uDS1rJ42AMbW5/sXBbGG35i1ZSjCdV7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62uCdwWxeLY0AcQwaYIGuxqiNPPd389Z+kivuctibaWoqHVdjfLfS0a5jpl2x6YX1G2rXk5hP6v9vmvB2y04QA= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ad65:: with SMTP id p92-v6mr18114021wrc.7.1539019507116; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 10:25:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Matt S Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 10:24:58 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: dmesg submission service -- please submit today To: gurenchan@gmail.com Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 17:25:09 -0000 I don't see how "dark pattern" applies because this doesn't trick you into an ongoing subversive data-sharing arrangement. In this idea, install asks you if you want to share stats once--you are not opted in to a system. Then, when processing upgrades, the Handbook would remind you that the report ability exists and this is a good time to do it if you've made any changes. Nothing happens without your explicit agreement during install, and nothing happens afterwards unless you type in a command, every time. If the current data is adequate for the project's needs, nothing needs to change. If the project needs to know more about hardware stats, the request to get hardware info needs to be somewhat visible. Making it an optional part of installing/updating seems reasonable to me. I'm assuming we trust the project, but if the idea of easier stat-sharing is offensive, then I guess there's nothing to talk about. On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 10:09 AM blubee blubeeme wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 12:48 AM Matt S wrote: > >> It really seems like the project would benefit from having better hardware >> stats. If you make it a package, people have to be educated to get it and >> use it--not that it doesn't have value, it just isn't well exposed and you >> will only get stats from the most clueful users. >> >> I would suggest making anonymized stat upload part of the install and >> upgrade process, to get wider coverage. >> >> - When installing, there's a new step or checkbox with an opt-in for >> hardware data sharing, defaulting to off >> - If you opt in, your info is uploaded as part of the install process >> - Expose the same functionality in a new system-level command like >> 'freebsd-uploadstats' and make it an optional but suggested part of the >> upgrade process, which is something most users will see repeatedly if they >> continue to be users. >> >> Perhaps the local machine can generate a hash of the report, check that >> with the server before the upload goes through. Hardware doesn't change >> that often. >> >> I do not want the project to turn in to Google or Microsoft, but knowing >> the hardware in use is a pretty worthy goal. >> >> MS >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern >