Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:57:26 +0100 From: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> To: FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Kernel Internals Documentation Message-ID: <20111230165726.350598b5.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20111230095914.6cc16ab2@scorpio> References: <CAGy-%2Bi-NN_SOYrrE6WgHyCBa5VzFexwT_C9UYhO3GyjvfsxpAA@mail.gmail.com> <20111230073958.3949a17b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20111230071500.6de15cf4@scorpio> <4EFDB022.10904@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20111230080510.52653cec@scorpio> <20111230142230.cb68d503.freebsd@edvax.de> <20111230095914.6cc16ab2@scorpio>
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:59:14 -0500, Jerry wrote: > On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 14:22:30 +0100 > Polytropon articulated: > > > >From "man iwn": > > > > Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965/1000/5000/5150/5300/6000/6050 > > IEEE 802.11n driver > > So they actually got support for one such device. I refer you to > <http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-wireless.html>; > which does not even list support for "n" protocol devices. In a web forum (where certain kinds of users expect documentation to take place), the following list for support in 9.0-RELEASE can be read: Airlink101 AWLL6090 ASUS USB-N11 ASUS USB-N13 ASUS WL-160N Belkin F5D8051 ver 3000 Belkin F5D8053 Belkin F5D8055 Belkin F6D4050 ver 1 Buffalo WLI-UC-AG300N Buffalo WLI-UC-G300N Buffalo WLI-UC-GN Corega CG-WLUSB2GNL Corega CG-WLUSB2GNR Corega CG-WLUSB300AGN Corega CG-WLUSB300GNM D-Link DWA-130 rev B1 D-Link DWA-140 DrayTek Vigor N61 Edimax EW-7711UAn Edimax EW-7711UTn Edimax EW-7717Un Edimax EW-7718Un Gigabyte GN-WB30N Gigabyte GN-WB31N Gigabyte GN-WB32L Hawking HWDN1 Hawking HWUN1 Hawking HWUN2 Hercules HWNU-300 Linksys WUSB54GC v3 Linksys WUSB600N Mvix Nubbin MS-811N Planex GW-USMicroN Planex GW-US300MiniS Sitecom WL-182 Sitecom WL-188 Sitecom WL-301 Sitecom WL-302 Sitecom WL-315 SMC SMCWUSBS-N2 Sweex LW303 Sweex LW313 Unex DNUR-81 Unex DNUR-82 ZyXEL NWD210N ZyXEL NWD270N This clearly is more than "one such device". If you employ a common means of finding documentation for a certain kind of users - using google - you'll be able to determine the source of that list. > I am not sure if this is an introductory level chip or used in higher > end devices although I have my strong suspicions. In any case, newer > and more fully functional "n" devices still lack any significant, and I > use that word graciously, support. You can see from the list that there is work being done. I'm sure as soon as "all" devices are fully supported, this kind of devices will be obsoleted and replaced by something different - which _then_ will lack support. > As for your inquiry as to why I don't write one myself, fair enough. I > have a family to support, various organizations I work with or > contribute to, etcetera. To actually invest the time (and I have no > idea how much time it would entail), thereby taking it away from other > ventures I am involved in, i.e "work" for example, not to mention the > documentation that I would probably have to buy to learn how to > actually write a driver for such a device and make it work on FreeBSD > since I have never done it before, and acquire whatever other skills > and material I might need all for a grand ROI of "$0" is beyond absurd. Luckily, FreeBSD documentation comes for $0. The required documentation to access the hardware... well, that's a different question. Again, as we did discuss (and agree upon) before, supporting FreeBSD is not in the scope of hardware manufacturers. Supporting more than the platform they get "aliments" for simply wouldn't pay. The unit sales for _this_ world of IT are simply to low to justify the work. The alternative would be to release all the specs for the hardware. But if a manufacturer doesn't want to do this, primarily to _not_ publish essentials of the business, it is okay. Of course, this makes it harder for _free_ volunteers to write a driver. One could argument: The manufacturer _doesn't_ want you to use his hardware on any OS that is not "Windows" - which again is his right. > I am not a socialist asshole. I'm happy to hear that, so please don't behave like one. > I don't expect the government to bankroll > me while I sit on my ass working on a hobby. So why do _you_ bankroll the government with your tax money for sitting on their ass spying at you or doing nothing? :-) > If FreeBSD really wanted to make a quality product they would hire > competent programmers to create the drivers, etcetera that are seriously > needed. I would gladly pay any reasonable charge for a product that > worked. I am not a socialist/fascist asshole and I despise those who > are. Other OSs have all ready gone this route. I would also be willing to buy FreeBSD as an OS if the functionality I require can be purchased that way. It's not that I'm using free software exclusively. I can't do that because _my_ reqirements are 99% met by free software, and 1% isn't, and this is where I happily pay to get things working. (On the other hand, I often, nearly _regularly_ see products people pay for that do _not_ work, and they don't have any chance to get their money back, or get any other kind of compensation from the makers of that software.) On the other hand, I'd be happy to provide such kind of driver support, even for free, to contribute back to the community that provided me a versatile, safe and fast OS for $0 which allows me to get my work done without trouble. You may call this "socialist" (but I'd call it "social"), because I feel it's not wrong to give something back if I'm allowed to take something for free. Unlike a typical setting in sales, this is not mandatory. Sadly, I'm not skilled enough for this kind of device driver hacking, I really lack experience in this particular field. Regarding 802.11n WiFi support, maybe you're interested in reading the interview with Adrian Chadd on 802.11n support in FreeBSD: http://www.osnews.com/story/25461/Interview_with_Adrian_Chadd_on_802_11n_in_FreeBSD > By the way, just out of morbid curiosity, how are ASLR and KMS support > coming along? Doing a quick perusal it would appear that everyone but > FreeBSD supports them. I am sure if I am in error and FreeBSD has full > support for them you will inform me of same. I think KMS is still a Linuxism, such as Wayland. But it's possible that it will arrive in FreeBSD when an urgent need by its users is expressed. As long as this is a "niche application", I don't think support will be created. You know, it's _very_ deep inside the bowels of the OS where this work has to be done... "Initial support for the NX bit, on x86-64 and x86 processors that support it, first appeared in FreeBSD -CURRENT on June 8, 2004. It has been in FreeBSD releases since the 5.3 release." from WP; SSP should be present since 8.0, if I remember correctly. Regarding ASLR, I'm not sure if this is an attack vector to FreeBSD (or if the threat which ASLR compensates is just present on "Windows"). > Poly, you are an admitted liar. Proof not provided, claim rejected. > Read your own statements; you have > admitted so yourself. No, I haven't. You must have been reading something different. > I fail to see where continuing a dialog with an > admitted liar serves any purpose. It seems that whenever your own logic turns against your argumentation, you cancel the discussion. Of course - it wouldn't lead anywhere for you. > Have a Happy New Year. A year in which you can contribute to > discussions regarding subjects you may or may not know anything about > depending on what fabrication you had previously spewed. I wonder if > the "Liar paradox" would be of interest here? Ah, so many things to > contemplate in the new year. Same to you. Maybe you'll have the chance to review your logic, your way of concluding and dealing with different kinds of expressions (facts, assumptions, conditionals, conclusions, experiences, feelings), and become more polite by avoiding offending terminology that you seem to not fully understand (as you are particularly "cherry-picking" both in what you take into discussion and what you want to seen interpreted into your own words). If your discussion culture would benefit from such a correction, I'd be glad to exchange arguments with you on a polite and usable discussion basis, but as long as you're failing to maintain the basics of discussion culture, I fear that this is not possible (even though I'm trying)... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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