From owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Sat Feb 11 08:51:46 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4CDCDAB72 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:51:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161A913A6 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:51:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 157C3CDAB71; Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:51:46 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151C2CDAB70 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:51:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) Received: from hades.sorbs.net (mail.sorbs.net [67.231.146.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C1A13A4 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:51:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from isux.com (firewall.isux.com [213.165.190.213]) by hades.sorbs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.29.0 64bit (built Jul 9 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0OL7001EECZTRG00@hades.sorbs.net> for ports@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Feb 2017 00:59:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Install of pkg fuse-ntfs fails because of undefined symbol in pkg!?! To: Mark Linimon Cc: scratch65535@att.net, freebsd-ports References: <1c6cccac-b151-d13c-c763-b336c4680118@freebsd.org> <35a953e3-918b-fc32-d990-51f7da16c884@FreeBSD.org> <99cr9cp6o01ef949dig289bkspipl8mog7@4ax.com> <20170210211849.GB10806@lonesome.com> <20170211002035.GA11637@lonesome.com> From: Michelle Sullivan Message-id: <87172bcd-3305-0e80-ddea-81f388291e2b@sorbs.net> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 09:51:41 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46 In-reply-to: <20170211002035.GA11637@lonesome.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:51:46 -0000 Mark Linimon wrote: > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 11:02:41PM +0100, Michelle Sullivan wrote: >> Or the last strong hold you have - the server owners - get so p**sed off in >> reality they can't keep up with the OS updates that they migrate away... > So we should give up on EFI, 4k drives, and SSD? > > Not what I said, suggested or thought. There is a difference between adding drivers and installation/boot tools and an incessant push to get people to upgrade every (what seems like 5 minutes)... yes I know it's longer than that, it might be a year, it might be two, but the hardware is outlasting (by a long way) the OS. Tell me.... What is the reason for me upgrading those few production servers from 9.3 to 10/11?... baring in mind the following: The tools/utilities in the base OS (ntp, ssh, openssl, etc etc etc) have been removed/disabled. The ports I am using to replace the base utilities is still using pkg_* tools and is up to date for the 1000 odd packages I have across my environment. The environment does not contain any new hardware that is not already supported. Then after that consider this: On some of my servers I have been attempting to move services to using 'powerdns' which was marked as broken on 9.3 since August 2016... It failed to link with 'to_string' not a part of 'std' ... however with a little research and some help (as I know very little about c++) it turns out that the problem that caused it is the same problem that has been present since 2014 on 8.x and was reported on the mailing lists along with a fix... oh and since then it's been reported on 10.x as well... and still no fix... ... The fix it turns out was very simple it's a bad #ifdef/missing #define in the C++ headers/config ... Guess what... it's fixed on my systems, but get "9.3 is obsolete, please upgrade" if I ask for a fix or even suggest about patching the fix in.... Its not the only thing, but it shows the sentiment, if you're not running HEAD, then *most* are not interested in helping you... This is the reason I forked... This is the reason why linux has so many variants, this is why FreeBSD is either now, or heading to be "just another distro" ... we're better off with DeadRat, we can pay support put it on our servers and know that it'll be supported *and patched* for the 5+ years we'll have the hardware... and this is what I was fighting within the company but they're right FreeBSD is not a viable option for the company as the OS moves too fast for either our DCs or the on prem embedded hardware.... we're a security company, we can't afford to be running an unsupported OS, and we can't afford to have 90% of the company staff admins so that we can keep upgrading our DCs and all the appliances. I respect you Mark, have seen you about here for years now, you're not stupid, but you have to see where the forcing of upgrades and drive to keep up with the joneses is hurting the userbase and therefore FreeBSD as a whole.... and just as a parting shot, about to attempt to deploy my fork onto some Sun hardware and if it works (which I expect it to) I'm going to try the same fix on there to see if that also fixes the build/link problem. -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/