From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 25 08:17:53 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF9816A4CE for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:17:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gizmo08bw.bigpond.com (gizmo08bw.bigpond.com [144.140.70.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C42343D46 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:17:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpc-users.org) Received: (qmail 29484 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2005 08:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bwmam03.bigpond.com) (144.135.24.75) by gizmo08bw.bigpond.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2005 08:17:45 -0000 Received: from cpe-138-130-184-160.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([138.130.184.160]) by bwmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2a 26/40679478) with SMTP id 40679478; Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:17:45 +1000 Received: (qmail 31304 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Jan 2005 08:17:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:17:45 +1100 From: Andrew Reilly To: Justin Walker Message-ID: <20050125081745.GA31139@gurney.reilly.home> References: <20050125035045.GA27895@gurney.reilly.home> <1355BB97-6E8C-11D9-B0E6-00306544D642@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1355BB97-6E8C-11D9-B0E6-00306544D642@mac.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: FreeBSD Architecture Subject: Re: Continuation of the Mach Microkernel X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:17:53 -0000 On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 08:46:28PM -0800, Justin Walker wrote: > > On Jan 24, 2005, at 19:50, Andrew Reilly wrote: > > >On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 04:51:51PM -0500, Nicholas Ink wrote: > >> Has anyone tried running the Mach microkernel with a new version of > >>FreeBSD, like 5.x? I'm working on a project involving that > >>microkernel, but I'm concerned that it won't work with newer versions > >>of FreeBSD. > >> Does anyone know anything or know of any resources that might assist > >>me? > > > >How about the Darwin codebase? They recently upgraded their > >user-land to FreeBSD 5.something, I believe. > > Nope. The Darwin kernel uses some updates from FreeBSD 4.x, not 5.x. I specified user-land, but the web pages on developer.apple.com indicate that synchronization-with and tracking of FreeBSD-stable is ongoing work. -stable now refers to 5.x, and I can't imagine them not wanting to incorporate some of the 5.x fine-grain locking work as it settles down. After all, there are plenty of multi-processor Mac boxes out there. > It isn't a wholesale import of FreeBSD, though. The device driver > model is completely different, as is the interface between the network > stacks and the devices. True. > Also, just to be clear, Darwin doesn't use Mach as a microkernel. The > implementation is more like Mach 2.x than Mac 3.x (even though the Mach > bits are based on Mach 3.x): there is no support for running "guest > OSs" in Darwin. I've often been puzzled why anyone using the Mach + BSD-single-server combination bothered with the "microkernel" moniker. Where's the win, there? Surely if you want a microkernel, then you look towards QNX, Hurd, Amoeba, L4 et al. Since FreeBSD was mentioned in the single-server context, I assumed that microkernel-ness wasn't important. I am interested in these issues, but haven't had the time or opportunity to investigate them myself, yet. Cheers, -- Andrew