From owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 22 08:03:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Delivered-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0250916A4C1; Mon, 22 May 2006 08:03:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.191]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4515B43D68; Mon, 22 May 2006 08:03:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-19-236.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.19.236]) by mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k4M8333Z008133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 22 May 2006 18:03:10 +1000 Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k4M82we6001035; Mon, 22 May 2006 18:02:58 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k4M82t3C001034; Mon, 22 May 2006 18:02:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 18:02:55 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Warner Losh Message-ID: <20060522080255.GB730@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <446B8E36.8050902@elischer.org> <20060518000342.GJ61448@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20060521221556.GA97506@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20060521.182731.74695972.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060521.182731.74695972.imp@bsdimp.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: grog@freebsd.org, cvs-src@freebsd.org, phk@phk.freebsd.dk, src-committers@freebsd.org, cvs-all@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apologies X-BeenThere: cvs-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the entire tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 08:03:45 -0000 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2006-May-21 18:27:31 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >> my intention to be offensive, merely to draw attention to problems we >> have with product management. These problems remain. I suspect that the e-mail grog is apologising for should have been on a private mailing list rather than a public one. There have been a couple of cases recently where committers have attacked each other in public lists - this does not do anything to enhance an outsider's view of the Project. >The pcvt removal has been long planned. As a non-committer, the first I was aware of it was phk's mail last Wednesday (sent 3 hours before pcvt was axed). IMHO, this proposal should have been raised on -arch (and maybe -announce) with a period allowed for someone to come forward and take over (and fix) pcvt before it was axed. The ports subsystem seems to have a formal process where unloved and broken ports are explicitly flagged for deletion with a (normally) 3 month timeout for someone to step forward. Maybe something like this is needed in the base system as well. >pcvt illustrates a problem that we've had in the project where we have >too many identical ways of doing the same thing. Sometimes this >diversity is good, other times it gets in the way of project making >progres. To properly manage the project, we have to make sure that >there's a balance between these two extremes. I totally agree. My concern is the (apparent) lack of a formal process. --=20 Peter Jeremy --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEcXAu/opHv/APuIcRAnFEAJ4kU7CcAnxrNecxD4beuog41yrsjwCghr6O 10dVtf5l1KfVrw7wlRY2jL0= =w9Mc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR--