From nobody Fri Aug 8 13:56:18 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz5DG4Dzvz63tLh; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:56:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz5DG3TnBz3rrh; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:56:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754661390; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ft8koDpOl+Y3sKv9dtzjy4W6q9I4f/gC5BBQ+EhC6y4=; b=BliUzyOeDAHFvxzpQhbnrWMSGVXYZmbtKS0cbQL9gOST+AHa6UZZY2ZOLIEXT+ClEOmhu5 y31JJrlqE8CUdqwblXYpDMWgbq4iY/t6X2vQNit24hPck1nKjPdZpVx/bXv9dpd2cS5WGV rSybF4Km0jPAvYq2WDHyWorrQBRRXeomEGJszu2VC3Am9J9XgLrikVacSPS+q/ZKy68ouo qmUlhF3D2MK7jJkv79uWOwy2VWjWThCW0y2wzKHXPhrWaaDJwu6vmDwg4lWpKBLAVlo9/Q m1PlWk54EE2NUyTyo3DPUDUwPuZZCZLV38EXfH5XydgD+XJ0lJELnsgJ8M5ekQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754661390; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ft8koDpOl+Y3sKv9dtzjy4W6q9I4f/gC5BBQ+EhC6y4=; b=Xn9AurQ5Qh8ZF/ylE0pgxH0bgZwiZa3kcAiXnupuqCPvBrn9shvedssbxgXHP4ILxxoecx zzCbXg90sDgNx1qX5a1nl70PfyhGiuT8iLPOJfGhfD4GsVtiGg24tlhz5piU0Q7llr+3WW VTO0X7DbtxmdmjFYNsEfWrZUHruUYzN0lcB9hNxzmPLCrmwZi9gPdIgLuusWC2RjjJoydl Y10slb3wfErED0+htC0FhEto4fdcY+cqiajN1kVhHnArAKYoOegWXxMfzOCAD3gCWM6CjV CCvEwKuGzrKPTh5JaRDtHuuYhjhlKU9dHoKCDV0X6fq92mN4fsteKCZfzKf6AA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754661390; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=w9IbVfteds4VCdRcoo7xdiINd6bDfiKkXRrgolDv2X1fwYLnROJEKmxuH+Wv6k8NN0rfJM jhLqCHUs7dGWLaukP9LJRR7JyaDr8AU8Qz7ud6WhmVKW+wduNhSg9qJ04Ind+ZjjEN0Yz+ 56+nAD4w6uerNg0X3gKFdsFd7knbnIY4m72tlze/kzJ9FxnlB7QgUM/cGsyTpLXxYUtr0Y AuIp3xm6GvSdXJx1Y08bIza63WMnygAgayjUutzw4B2L7T9vjPg/rbZ+FhR02aanA1Gxj1 TEpAGicbuiBMbwfe8pHr1AHPOydme9sgtO2r9hszarrT/x3l54ohB/wOA3okSw== Received: from smtp.theravensnest.org (smtp.theravensnest.org [45.77.103.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: theraven) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz5DG2sjDzJkr; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:56:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host86-143-41-189.range86-143.btcentralplus.com [86.143.41.189]) by smtp.theravensnest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88B1BBD3; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:56:29 +0100 (BST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 14:56:18 +0100 Cc: Tomek CEDRO , Colin Percival , vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) On 8 Aug 2025, at 14:42, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav = wrote: >=20 > Tomek CEDRO writes: >> [...] from user perspective these changes were easy to adapt to :-) >=20 > So will this one. Let=E2=80=99s remember the thing that started this entire thread: `pkg = delete -af` This is an *incredibly* stupid thing to do. Long before pkg came along, = I did the equivalent of this and managed to lock myself out of a = headless box by doing this because I forgot that I was using the ports = version of openssh instead of the base one. There are lots of other ways that deleting all packages will break your = system. This is why `pkg delete` *shows you a list of packages that it = will delete*, whether you specify `-a` or a single package. If you add `-f`, you are explicitly saying =E2=80=98I know what I am = doing, I don=E2=80=99t need to see the list of packages, I know exactly = what is happening=E2=80=99. To all of the people worrying about this: In the decade since pkg was = introduced, how many times have you *ever* run `pkg delete -af`? My = guess, for 99% of users, the answer is zero. It=E2=80=99s like running = rm -rf without checking what=E2=80=99s in a directory first. This entire long thread is because someone did a large destructive = operation, using a tool that defaults to telling them in detail what it = will do and giving them a chance to stop, and intentionally put the tool = in the mode where it didn=E2=80=99t do that. If that=E2=80=99s the most likely way of accidentally breaking a FreeBSD = system, we=E2=80=99re in an amazing position. I doubt it=E2=80=99s even = in the top 100. David