From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 8 19:02:17 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8BD7E63; Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:02:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACB9174D; Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:02:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.247.213.196] (135.sub-174-253-241.myvzw.com [174.253.241.135]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3DF0D1A3C19; Sun, 8 Dec 2013 11:02:11 -0800 (PST) References: <529E8C53.6020208@freebsd.org> <20131204060246.GV2951@home.opsec.eu> <52A12843.3010204@freebsd.org> <0BFC927B-D72E-4926-BB3D-2C000F310BDD@fisglobal.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <0BFC927B-D72E-4926-BB3D-2C000F310BDD@fisglobal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7271C4C4-7BAB-4DA7-9E10-49D5B2DB8964@mu.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B554a) From: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: BIND segway -> python -> first-class ports Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 11:02:06 -0800 To: Devin Teske X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 20:12:45 +0000 Cc: Tom Evans , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Stable" , Alfred Perlstein , "Teske, Devin" , Daniel Eischen , Kevin Oberman , Kurt Jaeger , Devin Teske , Julian Elischer X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:02:17 -0000 > On Dec 8, 2013, at 10:32 AM, "Teske, Devin" wr= ote: >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 12/5/13, 4:39 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Tom Evans wr= ote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Kevin Oberman wr= ote: >>>>> Of course, the question of what needs to be a class 1 port may prove t= o >>>> be >>>>> the bikeshed to end all bikesheds! (I think we need Python, Perl, JPEG= , >>>>> PNG, GPG, BIND and bright yellow!) And we need a reasonable mechanism t= o >>>>> update this list as the popularity of various tools does change. >>>> Woah, this is missing most of what Alfred was saying. There should be >>>> no "class 1 ports", and if jpeg went in base, it should be because >>>> base requires and uses it, not because it is useful to 3rd party >>>> software in base. The base jpeg *would not* even be visible to >>>> ports/3rd party software by default, only to base and things >>>> especially configured to use base. >>>>=20 >>>> You are correct. I did not understand Alfred's proposal correctly. Of >>> course, I can see several issues with that, as well, but it' a lot more >>> tractable than a set of "baseline" ports. >> Tom hit the nail on the head and perfectly described the proposal. Thank y= ou Tom. Kevin, thanks for being open to the idea. >>=20 >>=20 >> My hope is that it allows us to build richer system. For instance, go lo= ok at portsnap(1), it's written in sh(1) and due to that it's pretty slow >=20 > Perhaps bsdconfig is the exception to that rule (and can lend a hand). > I designed bsdconfig to run fast under double-emulation... >=20 > + Running under qemu, while... > + Qemu is running inside a VM, wile... > + VM has only 1 CPU and 128MB RAM, with minimal disk space, while... > + VM is running on a 8 year old laptop >=20 > The idea is that... if you develop for the worst of environments... you'll= get > screamin' performance on modern hardware. >=20 > In my emulation environment... a single fork is very costly. >=20 > So... >=20 > Does portsnap need some work? is that what I'm hearing? (smiles) My take is that you are a very talented person who shouldn't be spending tim= e micro optimizing shell code and instead be granted a language that makes w= riting such tools more efficiently easier.=20 So if I were going to task the talented Devin Teske with something, remember= you just asked my opinion, then it would be to look at putting Lua in the b= oot loader, getting python into base, or working on making our utilities be a= ble to output standard machine readable formats such as yaml, XML and json. = =20 > --=20 > Devin >=20 > _____________ > The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidenti= al. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any man= ner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware t= hat any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review b= y persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. >=20