From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 5 07:45:04 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD8416A417 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:45:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from fallbackmx03.syd.optusnet.com.au (fallbackmx03.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.133.136]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862B413C48A for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:45:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.197]) by fallbackmx03.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA46qQNa029379 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:52:26 +1100 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-20-82.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.20.82]) by mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lA46q3PO028758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:52:06 +1100 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lA46q2rK002413; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:52:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lA46q2kG002412; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:52:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:52:02 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Mark Linimon Message-ID: <20071104065202.GA97281@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <4727BE96.9020804@FreeBSD.org> <20071102173425.GB5282@graf.pompo.net> <472BB699.6070507@FreeBSD.org> <20071103005145.GA50846@FreeBSD.org> <472BDF06.5050700@FreeBSD.org> <1194122492.92719.56.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org> <20071104044132.GA10723@soaustin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071104044132.GA10723@soaustin.net> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Cc: x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xorg7.3 [was: 7.0 preview slides] X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:45:04 -0000 --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 11:41:32PM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote: >The situation was that our import of 7.2 was delayed as we tested and >retested and retested, to get the framework working for the modular >code and ensure as few regressions as possible. Thank you for that. I think it's unfortunate that X.org has decided to stop bothering with integration testing themselves but am glad that the FreeBSD ports team were able to do this for 7.2. >It seems as though 7.3 is better for some people and worse for others. Having followed X within FreeBSD from XFree86 3.1.2 through to X.org 7.3, I can safely say that X.org 7.3 is by far the worst version as far as POLA violations and regressions are concerned. I don't recall seeing anyone mention "better", though possibly those people aren't making a fuss. It is difficult to understand how an "update" that broke generic features like xkb LEDs, xdm and mouse scrolling, as well as ati, mga and nv drivers (that I've personally used) could be considered an improvement. I agree that the problem with xkb LEDs has been corrected, xdm has been partially fixed and I believe the nv problem has been fixed and there is an unofficial patch to work-around the MGA BIOS problem but this leaves the following regressions that I've noticed so far: generic: - Updating xdm over-writes local modifications - Impossible to disable wired-in modelines in the X-server ati (Radeon X200M): - VTY/X11 switching is dodgier (corrupts the screen more frequently) - system clock gets screwed up (it can lose several seconds) during a VTY/X11 switch - DPMS display off/on can corrupt the display - The X-server often abort()s on shutdown mga (G550): - Impossible to specify a default initial resolution - HW cursor is broken - DPMS is broken (I can't currently test the systems with nVIDIA chipsets) >In any case, as soon as 7.3 was out, I'm sure xorg lost interest in >bug reports about 7.2, and people were already asking us when the >next version was going to be in. I think it's unfortunate that X.org didn't spend more time testing X.org 7.3 before releasing it. Hopefully X.org 7.4 will see an improvement in quality. I agree that the FreeBSD Project is not responsible for the shambles that was released by X.org but X.org 7.3 is definitely nowhere near the quality of the FreeBSD core software or the vast majority of ports. Unfortunately, IMHO releasing FreeBSD 6.3 or 7.0 with X.org in its current state _will_ adversely impact the general perception of the FreeBSD Project. I don't believe it's feasible to roll back to X.org 7.2 so in the short term (for the upcoming FreeBSD releases) about all that can be done is to try and locate and apply fixes for the various regressions. The solution for the longer term is unclear - the FreeBSD ports system can't really handle a '-devel' variant of modular X.org - it comprises too many ports. At the same time, the normal X.org ports can't be used for beta code because too many people will wind up running that code, courtesy of portupgrade or similar. Maybe the GNOME or KDE groups have some suggestions on how to handle integration testing of large ports collections without adversely affecting the ports tree. --=20 Peter --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHLWwS/opHv/APuIcRAs4pAJwItFMjCBiAWCwhS/G1wXkslqSxxQCfSsyJ ijfat92RnT9zYoDbt+umAAo= =a9yD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA--