From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 18:02:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748DC16A41F for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:02:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from takeo@ss.jip.co.jp) Received: from mail03.toshima.ne.jp (mail03.toshima.ne.jp [202.140.193.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5CF7743D45 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:02:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from takeo@ss.jip.co.jp) Received: (qmail 27168 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2005 03:02:06 +0900 Received: from pix02.toshima.ne.jp (HELO emifuku.ss.jip.co.jp) (202.140.192.130) by t.toshima.ne.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2005 03:02:06 +0900 From: HashimotoTakeo@mac.com (Takeo Hashimoto) To: remko@elvandar.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:29:43 +0100 (CET)". <57758.145.221.52.72.1133364583.squirrel@webmail.evilcoder.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.22PL7] 2003-09/29(Mon) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 03:02:06 +0900 Message-ID: <051201030206.M0301337@emifuku.ss.jip.co.jp> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, HashimotoTakeo@mac.com Subject: Re: advocacy/89731: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: HashimotoTakeo@mac.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:02:39 -0000 Hello, Mr.Lodder. now I almost agreed with you. - "restrict" is not a golden hammer for some lists. - no one can stop spam tsunami, so people have to protect them by themselves. - on the other hand, we may implement some level of filtering at server side. - sending PR does not change jp.freebsd.org. I should act directly to them. On Thu, Dec 01, 2005 00:29 JST, Remko Lodder wrote: >> I don't think so, they do search first on the web before posting mail. >> and that is my 1st point. >> - newbie can not find any kind of know-how from ML archive site. >> because the archive has been filled with spam. > >You are colliding with yourself here i think. People do not search the >archives first and then ask questions, as someone who helped out on >questions@ a year ago, i can tell you that. Also -if- people search >on the archives and they give good keywords they will find the proper >information without the spam. > >> >> But I agree "open" and "restrict_post" should be beneficiate for each >> list. >> >>> The other problem >>> is that >>>some ML, like questions@, get a large number of e-mails a day. I'm >>> not sure >>>it's fair to require a user to wade through a hundred or more >>> non-spams just >>>so they can ask a question. >> >> If user posts some questions to the list, >> then he might get some answer, and also much hard spam? >> unfortunately it is true at jp.FreeBSD lists. >> I think the policy "restrict_post" will save him (and also us). >> >> but you don't think so. mmm... > >I think that it will not work; restrict post requires manual >intervention and that will cost a lot of overhead; many posts will be >blocked and in the end no one will be happy. The one thing that can be >done on the jp.freebsd.org side is filtering more agressively like the >freebsd.org mx records do. Also these days end users should have >enabled spam filters, mostly that is an option through the ISP they >use, and imo people cannot live without some kind of filtering anymore, >and that will only get worse (and worse; and worse). > >> >>>> > Adding restrict_post actually is a lot of work on the admins since >>>> > someone has to handle all the bounced e-mails. >>>> >>>> I think we can simply ignore them (>/dev/null). >>>> >>>> If you have better idea to stop deliver spam, >>>> please let me know. >>> >>>Most of the FreeBSD developers when we have had discussions on spam >>> recently >> >> "discussions" sounds good. >> >> I think we are same on this point: >> "how to make it easy for new people to get started with FreeBSD?" >> > >We should provide proper help to the people that have questions and do >the thing we can do (implement some level of filtering at our side by >using blacklists or something). > >> but the conclusion is different. You say "open the door (with >> gatekeeper)" >> I say "close the door until you examine the newcomer is a human". > >I'd say; open a can of people that can help you manage this and you are >welcome to put this into production ;-) > >> >> I think that it is policy problem, so jp admins need to have public >> hearing. >> Will this PR cause their action? I hope. > >I do not think this will cause postmaster@jp.freebsd.org to start doing >something with it. This mailinglist, nor any of the others are for that >specific reason. you should contact them immediatly... > >> >>>have concluded that the spam problem is so large and extent, that the >>> only >>>real solution is for the receiver to block spam. >> >> well, we have to write easy-setup-guide of spam-filter >> for beginners, and have to shout to them >> "Wait! set up your filter before you post!" > >Right, and that people should not drive too hard since they will >get traffic fines and that they should not steal, kill and such.. >impossible :-) > >> #----------------------------------------------------------# >> # Takeo Hashimoto. sempre ff. # >> #----------------------------------------------------------# >> > >-- >Kind regards, > > Remko Lodder ** remko@elvandar.org > FreeBSD ** remko@FreeBSD.org #----------------------------------------------------------# # Takeo Hashimoto. It's impossible, ...but doable. # #----------------------------------------------------------#