From owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 4 11:21:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF57337B401 for ; Sun, 4 May 2003 11:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.parodius.com (mail.parodius.com [64.71.184.173]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 411F843FB1 for ; Sun, 4 May 2003 11:21:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdc@pentarou.parodius.com) Received: from pentarou.parodius.com (jdc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.parodius.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h44IIK6G085355 for ; Sun, 4 May 2003 11:18:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdc@pentarou.parodius.com) Received: (from jdc@localhost) by pentarou.parodius.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h44IIKlT085354 for freebsd-net@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 May 2003 11:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 11:18:20 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030504181820.GA84906@parodius.com> References: <_MzYgD.A.O9P._h8s-@coal.sentex.ca> <09l7bv4bp8vvngc0j85tgqob0u3b0vl7pr@4ax.com> <200305041937.27631.vjardin@wanadoo.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200305041937.27631.vjardin@wanadoo.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: Howto rename an interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-net@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Networking and TCP/IP with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 18:21:07 -0000 Not to barge into an already-spurious conversation, but I must completely disagree with this methodology. I'm sorry, but Linux's implementation is incredibly ambiguous, and always has been. I knew where your recommendation was coming from (it was obvious from the start, re: eth1). This is not an anti-Linux comment as much as it is a comment supporting the concept of a clean -- and consistent -- interface to common drivers and devices. As a 7-year Linux user who "turned BSD" due to this specific reason, I've come to believe I've earned my right to speak. In BSD, each driver is represented (for the most part) by it's appropriate abbreviation. It's easy to refer to ("I use the dc driver," "Check the dc(4) manpage"), it results in a clean code-base (if_dc.c, src/sys/dev/dc), and it provides _consistency_ across the board not only in the kernel and device layer, but also as far as user-land applications go. Don't forget about fellow administrators helping one another out (either online or in person); I cannot even begin to imagine send-pr(1) forms with data consisting of interface names which don't correspond with their proper driver. If I was able to name a network interface FooBarBlat, that really doesn't tell me anything about what the actual interface _is_, nor does it make the debugging process any easier. You start having to add an extra layer of ambiguity between user-land and kernel, as well as interface code and other IP-based modules. A lookup-interface-alias-and-correspond-with-device-ID function, just adding more overhead for something that's entirely cosmetical. I fully agree with Mike Tancsa's earlier comment: this sounds tremendously messy to maintain, and (IMHO) completely goes against what I believe to be the "BSD-style" of doing things (I'm sure someone more senior in the BSD community will slap me for this, but I think people know what I'm getting at here). The day I see "eth" show up in BSD will be the day I, and many other administrators, voice our disapproval loudly. Sorry if this Email comes off as harsh -- I just grow very tired of seeing ambiguity weaselling it's way into Good Software(tm). -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. | | "Appreciate what you've got, 'cuz basically, I'm fantastic." -- Holly | On Sun, May 04, 2003 at 07:37:27PM +0200, Vincent Jardin wrote: > Le Samedi 3 Mai 2003 16:43, Mike Tancsa a écrit : > > It sounds a bit messy to maintain. Perhaps it would be easier to just > > write wrapper programs around those that you use if really need be. e.g. a > > local copy of netstat,ifconfig and route and have those executed first in > > your path. > > I thought about it. However many issues remain: > - SNMP still uses the FreeBSD's interface name > - the kernel logs > - ... they are lot of softwares that need their own patch > > Whereas all these softwares would work fine if the interface name does not > have a unit number. > > Thanks, > Vincent > > PS: > For example, with Linux, the name of an ipip or gre tunnel is free: > # ip tunnel add FooBar mode ipip remote 192.168.0.251 local 192.168.0.15 > # ifconfig FooBar > FooBar Lien encap:IPIP Tunnel HWaddr > POINTOPOINT NOARP MTU:1480 Metric:1 > RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > collisions:0 lg file transmission:0 > RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) > > > > > > ---Mike > > > > On Sat, 3 May 2003 15:47:34 +0200, in sentex.lists.freebsd.net you wrote: > > >I would like to rename the network interfaces. More particularly, I would > > > like to control the numbers in the name and to remove the constraints. > > > > > >For example, what are the issues about renaming my 'vr0' interface to > > > eth1-3 or DSL-WAN that does not have a ifunit within its name ? > > > > > >I think about the following issues, what am I forgetting ? > > > - update all the sockaddr_dl > > > - many drivers, in fact all of them, log with %s%d, ifname, ifunit > > > - (add a message on the routing socket) > > > > > >Regards, > > > Vincent > > >_______________________________________________ > > >freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list > > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net > > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) > > http://www.sentex.net/mike > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"