From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 07:11:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347ED16A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:11:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29E8743D1F for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:11:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asporner@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040612071152.67839.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.131.171.28] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:11:52 PDT Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:11:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Sporner To: Allen , freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040611205531.03822858@ns1.velvettooth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:11:52 -0000 Hello Allan, I agree with some of your points and will keep this short. I am very happy that you choose tempered language. You have my respect for this. You have made some points that I have to at least in principle to agree with. However principles are a two way street. Some replies: 1. Definately not Microsoftish! I am not that strapped for cash to privatize for this reason. It is simply a matter of motivation. Until recently when I realized how many people are using this I thought to myself, "What am I doing this for!???" No insult taken by the way--just a point of clarification. 2. Check out the NetBSD project server, I have still a low two digit number. The project started there and was moved to FreeBSD about two years ago, when my work project http://www.nitro-switch.de) also was switched to FreeBSD. 2. I am too busy building exciting new loadbalancers and routers too do this things to put the final polish on the software. the basic stuff just works. I have asked NUMEROUS times for help to finish it. When I was in college there was plenty of time for this but the working (and social) world makes other demands. This other project seems to be a school project. There is nothing wrong with that--it's just that they typically have many more resources that can be used. > What I saw here was simply someone asking about HA clustering, and a simple > response along the lines of "check out this website" for a website that > wasn't yours, at which point you flew off the handle about people not > reading the list, and not supporting "projects grounded in the freebsd > world." You apparently feel slighted that a website/project other than > yours was mentioned, or even exists. I Flew off the handle because this is not the first time, but about the 4th or 5th time. > After seeing both links here and checking them out, I come away with the > impression that you have a very new project (I know you said 1997, I'm > talking impressions) and that you're the only person involved in it. People always speak of "community" but never really practice it. I lived in a real community (http://www.procopious.org) While certainly this is not a religious group there are certain tenets that are very applicable here that just are not present! I see instead much evidence of social darwinism, which is the antithesis of good community. If it's all about survival of the fittest--I will take a pass. So far the people who are using the software have had no problems (evidently) with it and so the documentation was enough. I admit it lacks what it should have but it's all about time and volunteers. I agree documentation is sorely lacking, but I can't do both. I never said this was a closed project... > If this has not always been the case, and is being fixed soon, then this is > all moot. If however this is how it's "always been", I can perfectly > understand why your work may be seemingly ignored, and why it wouldn't have > made a memorable impression on me even if I had seen it in the past. Right > now, first impression is "Here's a patch for some version of FreeBSD, you > figure out which. It's cool, try it, tell me if you like what it does." To date several people have have stepped up to held on this documentation because I simply have no time for this, I am still waiting. As I said, a student project will always win in cases like this. Until now I have never heard from you. If you waited so long, than why didn't you say something??? How much could a paragraph worth of email could have cost--considering how much time I have so far wrapped up in this project??? I am not moved by money here--but a little satisfaction or constructive criticism when it would have been helpful would have been nice. > > Now, all that aside, you've really, in my eyes, come off as the bad guy > here. To run the risk of a great insult, you sound rather "microsoftish" > in your response -- angry that your project has any competition, Certainly not, I was simply angry because after all the work I did and all the times in THIS GROUP I have made mention of it that at least it was not in the list of things to try--I was very dissappointed > > Competition and choice are the very heart of what the FreeBSD project is > all about, and you seem to have lost sight of that. > I also lost sight of where "people helping people" have gone to as well. Not just b-tching when something doesn't fit their fancy or nobody ever bothers to ask questions before making a decision. This all smacks of what is wrong with the world today. It's all about fast food, instant gratification and more more more--without the social expenses. Community??? Really.... I really laugh sometimes. People have borrowed the word "Community" from the Linux folks, but people here (not necessarily in this group) complain about linux. I know I have at times and I still think for good reason. But they have one thing right. THey have, "The Linux Router Project", or "The linux hi-availability project" ad nasuem... I thought since I was so far the first to step up to this that this was the "FreeBSD HA project" but I was sorely mistaken evidently. However, this exchange has given enough merit to continue perhaps a little more effort here. I won't put times into the schedule because everytime I do I end up putting my foot in my mouth. I am one person who has a very heavy work schedule outside of this. The Nitro-switch contains a driver that is more than 50,000 lines of code, of which I have done almost half not withstanding that I did the major design of the device--including the high availablity, which is based on the software I offered here. Stay tuned... Andy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/