From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 28 11:55:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63073A6EF7 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BGFVQ3Ll9z4Jpp for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 72E523A74B3; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:55:26 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A9F3A7371 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BGFVP1ZcXz4JTg for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:55:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1595937324; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=6sM+OnownQst/YLNQeZAuODLolg=; b=q7tdQU8c/zZRyBDWZTG0x1F16KcR8n+jn+vB1W2KQsX33686BMDXxG56Ji9E0JYx T5/2G/lUBYgorFW7VRS2n5/ZiXlwcfb9SeiIMafh78QZ41wcdVYfU9VAiblWSL2l yS/xaHvUbW6sNQ139/+I/oKlptwu0B69jS/zLOqZdv98V+wc3518omKGO+BQD9xe OkFN+ZYJcuJYgCYZdogfLUw0vZJIOO/zua+LCO42o9OEP3CMjFzj9u3i8vlwkWCc rprGBn4Ht3SdiPbDjaPBi+FBfSqvXVNwUoIPyGSL5ra41SDPGyM3+ODIdZlGp9GZ Lr9Ffze3kMZMc65JItyqdg==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Z5uS40ZA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=_RQrkK6FrEwA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=OA2lqS22AAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=sIt-5M63AAAA:8 a=bzscy5Q-Z5PvII_tjeEA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=iRRExZBRQuYA:10 a=047cQLXTEfCjWPUe_kQW:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=9lllHE19to-vvezgg3ZZ:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:39364] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id D9/66-10869-B22102F5; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 07:55:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <24352.4650.708202.473784@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 07:55:22 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: Mateusz Piotrowski <0mp@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Robert Huff , questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: change in tcsh behavior In-Reply-To: References: <24351.11091.522286.251422@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <24351.24025.555285.682585@jerusalem.litteratus.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.3 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BGFVP1ZcXz4JTg X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=q7tdQU8c; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.16 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.005]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.06)[-1.057]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[69.168.97.78:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[69.168.97.78:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:55:26 -0000 From: Robert Huff To: Mateusz Piotrowski <0mp@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: change in tcsh behavior In-Reply-To: References: <24351.11091.522286.251422@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <24351.24025.555285.682585@jerusalem.litteratus.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.3 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) --text follows this line-- Hello: > > > How do I go back to the old output? > > > > Set sysctl kern.tty_info_kstacks to 0. > > > Umm ... is there a reason this isn't the default? > > I think the idea was that it is useful enough to enable it by > default. Otherwise, it would be really hard to discover it. This > change was well received by various developers, and it also had an > revision where the default was changed from 1 to 2 (or something) > to make it a little bit more compact. And if it makes their life easier, then I approve. However: 1) something visibly changed, that 2) affects the default system shell and therefore a _lot_ of users, many of which like the old way 3) without warning or documentation (e.g. a single line entry in src/UPDATING), and figuring out what happened is, in your words "really hard to discover" for the casual user. Respectfully, Robert Huff