From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 09:12:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A26D16A419; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854DB13C4D3; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:12:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54A55EDA.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.94.218]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473C12E2A1; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B38E57528A; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:27 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=Leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1197450747; bh=UASD0fYPAGPZRGp8J0hSk+xkHAUzcP6o2 mopdFguwDk=; h=Message-ID:X-Priority:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Disposition:Content-Transfer-Encoding:User-Agent; b=roHPdc lutmpyQuyRJ5VDcYHjXNC5Lp17jkBIEx59aULqSnhJYv1S6f0JQZIQqm6xKTIalVINK d+ikvJ1S9lYrH/PwKzpQwO6+T9jNvJGGd3tbJjnShZgt7KgMEpw+B5orKvf/AcPz774 vIF9Cb/PhGBXjBmPzKLi2I+gEpyVVyoPSEBtwtIvcaw0rJi+5cY+0+xzxO5sOes3yNX kRE1iHjIgFf276LueSXxdDjJjWGme7QaMwlVcCUfdmhmCAsL+rA3o0uKLKyAQFvv3Sv kVh82qLmiN4aTD0A/slZFjOTf6e9E3UxjLirI3WTB3Ye9yLLbdno61sE8EyfXCaCHOk A== Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.1/8.13.8/Submit) id lBC9CRjV024564; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:27 +0100 Message-ID: <20071212101227.jl3lqsypnowww044@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:27 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: David Schultz References: <20071128211022.GA74762@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <20071128213947.Q7555@fledge.watson.org> <20071210192533.GA15728@VARK.MIT.EDU> <20071210220854.07e02f1f@deskjail> <20071210223838.GB16598@VARK.MIT.EDU> <20071211080216.pb3b95teoggko00o@webmail.leidinger.net> <20071211112150.GA1214@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <20071211233301.GA22692@VARK.MIT.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20071211233301.GA22692@VARK.MIT.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) / FreeBSD-7.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-15.4, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -15.00, DKIM_SIGNED 0.00, DKIM_VERIFIED -0.00, RDNS_DYNAMIC 0.10, SMILEY -0.50) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Daniel Eischen , Kostik Belousov , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: libkse*.a in 7.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:12:43 -0000 Quoting David Schultz (from Tue, 11 Dec 2007 =20 18:33:01 -0500): > On Tue, Dec 11, 2007, Daniel Eischen wrote: >> On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Kostik Belousov wrote: >> >> >On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:02:16AM +0100, Alexander Leidinger wrote: >> >>I work in the office of SUN in Luxembourg, and one of our ideas for a >> >>client was to run a Solaris 8/9 in a zone of a Solaris 10 as a >> >>replacement for machines with Solaris 8/9. As we have a service >> >>contract with our client, we have to take some business constraints >> >>into account. And one of those business constraints is that Solaris >> >>8/9 in a zone of Solaris 10 is not supported, as the kernel interface >> >>(syscalls) changed in an incompatible way. >> > >> >Look at the project Etude. >> >> The syscalls are only exposed in an ABI compliant way through the >> libraries, which is what we should do also. But I think if you >> were to plop the Solaris 10 libraries (at least the symbol-versioned >> ones) over the Solaris 8/9 image, it might have a chance of working >> for you. Hmm, unless the Sun private symbols in Solaris 8/9 were >> not versioned and kept as compatible versions in Solaris 10. >> It might be interesting to try it and see what happens ;-) > > I'm not so sure about that. The truth is that they *do* make > plenty of incompatible changes (referred to internally as "flag > days"), but they ensure that apps linked against the new kernel > and the new libc don't notice. They guarantee the stability of the > ABI between the app and libc, not the stability of the ABI between > libc and the kernel. > > There's an orthogonal issue of "branded zones," which are a new > feature in Solaris 10; they're essentially jails with a different > syscall vector, similar to what is done in the linuxulator. The > original goal was to support Linux binaries and libraries running > in Solaris, but it's also possible to have a Solaris 8 branded > zone running in Solaris 10. In the latter case, you actually *are* > using all the old Solaris 8 libraries in the jail, and there are a > few more caveats in terms of what is supported, as I > understand. This may be what Alex was referring to. Yes and no. Yes regarding using old libraries on a new system. No =20 regarding having this feature only in a jail. Currently we have this =20 feature in the entire system, without the need to tag something as =20 "old" (note: we don't brandelf linux libs, we just load them in the =20 linuxulator, and playing with the syscall vector instead of keeping =20 the current level of backward compatibility in the kernel opens up a =20 can of worms; everyone thinking this is exaggerated is free to head =20 over to the linuxulator and fix the corresponding problems we have =20 with libs there). Bye, Alexander. --=20 Look before you leap. =09=09-- Samuel Butler http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137