From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 17:20:36 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3867106564A for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:20:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DEB58FC17 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:20:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id n0EHKYnr069307 ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:20:35 +0100 (CET) X-Ids: 164 Received: from asmodee.lpthe.jussieu.fr (asmodee.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.34]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884148A2F4; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:20:33 +0100 (CET) Received: by asmodee.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 7BB6B42FC; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:20:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:20:33 +0100 From: Michel Talon To: Kevin Wilcox , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20090114172033.GA29254@lpthe.jussieu.fr> References: <20090113044111.134EC1CC0B@ptavv.es.net> <20090113222023.GA51810@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <496D1ED6.4090202@FreeBSD.org> <200901132356.40820.ken@mthelicon.com> <496D64A0.1090309@FreeBSD.org> <20090114091342.GA19986@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <5d6848b00901140821s61599c9vb3f91f75142d0481@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5d6848b00901140821s61599c9vb3f91f75142d0481@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.164]); Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:20:35 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.94.2/8864/Wed Jan 14 13:50:32 2009 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail2.jussieu.fr with ID 496E02E7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 496E02E7.005/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 496E02E7.005 on jchkmail2.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.036 -> S=0.036 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:43:26 +0000 Cc: Subject: Re: Alternatives to gcc (was Re: gcc 4.3: when will it become standard compiler?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:20:38 -0000 On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:21:00AM -0500, Kevin Wilcox wrote: > 2009/1/14 Michel Talon : > > > Apparently the FreeBSD project doesn't want to include any GPL V3 because > > there are industrial partners who have banned the GPl V3, out of purely > > ideological position, without any rational basis. I wonder why the FreeBSD > > project has any reason to follow them. > > If you make the claim that banning GPL v3 is being done by commercial > entities that rely on FreeBSD (and other BSD licensed code) for > reasons that are purely ideological and have no rational basis then > you either do not fully understand the significance of GPL v3 versus > GPL v2, you haven't sufficiently worked with a commercial entity with > regards to GPL/LGPL/BSD code that you (or others) have licensed to > them or you are just trying to troll the FreeBSD community. I would > wager the first two are the case here? > Yes, i make the claim that, as far as the compiler tool chain is considered, there is no difference between GPL V2 and GPL V3 because both licences make no restriction on the software compiled with the tool chain. Of course i make no claim considering other type of software. I have no problem that FreeBSD produces an operating system under BSD licence, unpolluted by viral clauses. And, yes, i have an idea of the difference between V2 and V3. Dimitry Andric says that "dependence on GNU gcc has always been bad", but gcc has been the only "game in town" for all these years and will perhaps remain for a lot of years. The FreeBSD project is not a project on compiler construction. Having done computations in the past, i have seen times when gcc produced code twice slower than the Intel compiler. I have also seen that it took around 10 years to the gcc folks, who are very competent compiler developers, to get more or less at the same level of perfomance than the Intel compiler. So i hope, and i am quite sure, that the FreeBSD developers will not abandon something that works rather well for some very hypothetical advantage. If it appears at some moment that llvm works well and produces code as fast as gcc, for all the platforms of interest for the FreeBSD people, i have no doubt that they will switch immediately. But one of the aims of FreeBSD, distinguishing it from other BSDs, is performance. Having a good compiler is of paramount importance for performance, not only of the base operating system, but of all the ports running on it. People wanting BSD purity, above everything, don't have any difficulty finding it. -- Michel TALON