From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 15:31:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD2B16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84343D48; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.0.12] (g4.samsco.home [192.168.0.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56Md4nf044248; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C39B0B.8070102@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:30:35 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marcel Moolenaar References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> <20040606221330.GB97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <20040606221330.GB97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:31:37 -0000 Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:46:44PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > >>>As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 >>>without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it >>>for his own sake. >> >>It's not that there is face to loose on alpha, it's that every time >>I announce that alpha is going to be killed unless issues X, Y, and Z >>are fixed, someone comes along and fixes X, part of Y, and promises >>to fix Z. > > > I don't read anything I haven't read before. People have made promises > before and good intentions notwithstanding, you cannot keep a project > hostage this way. Degrade alpha and only promote it after people have > actually demonstrated that alpha is tier 1 material after all. > > >>At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from Tier-1 >>status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking item for >>releases. > > > Just *do* it. You've been advocating for way too long. > There are always people with good intentions, and they often want to find some way to help. I appreciate this very much and I don't want to turn them away. We also can't make a snap decision in an afternoon and risk missing people who have better things to do on their weekends/holidays than track FreeBSD mail =-) But yes, Alpha has been languishing for too long. I'll say it in a loud voice now: This is the last call for Alpha. It cannot maintain minimum tier-1 requirements and it will be demoted for 5.3. Unless you currently have access to a representative selection of hardware, the knowledge to track down platform-specific issues, the willingness to handle the current outstanding issues, and the time to do it for the next 18 months, please accept my regrets on it. Again, while I appreciate people who can pick away at some of the lesser issues or want to learn the bigger things, we need a 100% maintenance and development solution. Scott