From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 23 17:35:41 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E32621 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:35:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-qa0-x22a.google.com (mail-qa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9BCB2FCC for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:35:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id w8so4363653qac.8 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=V/4IKVIqS/c8Oj3wDhLOT1rW6gmrbdl+/nb0aku4UwE=; b=I2DZXcp2rHW1AM0wqPD2851vu2Xl5bYgCN7PoRxSSxPfSMCMGaXnM2KxG+xlqYFrNY Oq/IYgUn8hBVRnClTS7cEecRre6KdZkkXR15m0AofFMfFQiFPaaafB7Qz32H4EjjfcyP CX9GuZ41Ok8+1NPegQDh1C36nDKX7Tl0jCoTY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=V/4IKVIqS/c8Oj3wDhLOT1rW6gmrbdl+/nb0aku4UwE=; b=cEZq6SrwgqdZ7Ay6QkqTpkzzIdrPYbHwP0ikeoqyI5B2TARZBQNrtKX0qiBM9svSs2 qfaft9sq1OyQwZUkEkbS1GG9ljvRaHBSfNLJfid4byjjrsjya8xorrmJ2wO5gS8aSDqx y1qT7Qnl814Y3rMakBB6La7Zo8Y72kVPMF2MG/OrL9lHbSX/d2Oxrwt+d62ix/8Xz/uz m3VYwjFDAraunGAOSxvTAS566RBGYKZoOP3uPq31iA3fRmx0UuAnz7f7+sfDqkFzIQ8/ DDnY4YCxUcKYGwdPwNcyR5S9GcQfJBe/FYcFV6Ck6mSsAg1AsRuSF4QbRNLRagLTyzRE hkiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnPwdOc5YxAUyyQwCMLun3ns/voDbpg/PhItwzb/+Mk6VIQiQWoI8OzkgSfNyG95r5T0l4v X-Received: by 10.224.69.132 with SMTP id z4mr5541158qai.78.1382549740530; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.63.101 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5265878B.1050809@yandex.ru> <201310212146.r9LLkqZ1044966@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Eitan Adler Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:35:10 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] removing the NDISulator To: Adrian Chadd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , "Andrey V. Elsukov" , "freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:35:42 -0000 On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > If there are drivers that people absolutely need fixed then they should > stand up and say "hey, I really would like X to work better!" and then > follow it up with some encouraging incentives. Right now the NDISulator > lets people work _around_ this by having something that kind of works for > them but it doesn't improve our general driver / stack ecosystems. I doubt most people prefer to use the ndisulator over a native driver. However, many people don't have the skills, time, or money to provide the incentives you are talking about. At this point ndisulator provides a means to an end: working wireless and it isn't causing significant strain on the project in terms of development effort. Our end users are not always developers and I think removing this feature will hurt more than it will help. -- Eitan Adler