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Date:      Sun, 17 Dec 1995 01:10:07 -0800
From:      "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
To:        Andreas Klemm <andreas@knobel.gun.de>
Cc:        current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de, jkh@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD-current-stable ??? 
Message-ID:  <7748.819191407@time.cdrom.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:22:15 %2B0100." <Pine.BSF.3.91.951217083228.405C-100000@knobel.gun.de> 

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> When speaking with people like Martin Cracauer, then I get
> the impression, that possibly more people would be interested
> to help in FreeBSD developement. Perhaps developing additional
> features, too. But they only have one machine, which shouldn't
> get into a very unstable state. 
> 
> So how could one attract more people, to work on the bleeding
> edge, without loosing stability too much ??!!

I think the answer is pretty simple:

People committing to -current need to get their acts together and stop
destabilising it so much.  Yes, that's a somewhat sharply worded
statement, but I think that the split into 2.1 and 2.2 has been taken
by some to be implicit permission for a "free for all" in -current,
and that was NEVER the intention of that branch!

If you've got something truly whacked-out experimental to bring in
then you're supposed to test it out on your own machine(s) to the
level where it, as an absolute minimum, does not make the system
unusable.  If you can't reasonably guarantee this, then it should stay
in your local tree until you can.

As Andreas notes here, having an unstable -current is very
counter-productive and only leads people away from wanting to run it
at all (I haven't updated my own -current system for a week or so, for
exactly this reason).  That somewhat defeats the purpose of -current,
which is to be a *final* testing ground for features.  It's not a
dumping ground for half-baked and untested ideas that break existing
functionality.  If you've got something truly left-field that you want
to bring in and it doesn't effect other parts of the system as a
whole, then the rules are perhaps somewhat more flexible, but this
definitely doesn't apply to changes to existing features.

I think that the idea of further branching of FreeBSD into
-experimental and -current is not a good one, for various reasons:

1. It would only encourage more mayhem in -experimental, quickly leading
   to an unmanagable mess that nobody in their right minds would want to
   run anyway (and if that's the case, then what's the point of committing
   something to a central location?  Just keep it in your own tree until
   it's ready).

2. It would fragment work even more.  People would be confused as to where
   to commit, what with all these possible options.

3. Somebody would be stuck with merging changes between 3 branches instead of
   two, and two is already becoming close to unmanagable (just ask David).


Sorry to be so acidic, but I really do think that this needed to be
said, and messages like Andreas's here would only serve to indicate
that -current is way out of control.  We need to regain some of the
credibility we've lost here, not make the problem even worse!

					Jordan



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