From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Feb 15 06:05:25 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A9C024FAD0 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 06:05:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) Received: from admin.sibptus.ru (admin.sibptus.ru [IPv6:2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48KKVD4M9kz3KvZ for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 06:05:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sibptus.ru; s=20181118; h=In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=yllO/BO4ypaEJ3p0txrxG7j6fljadbMVNeUCikdsR3E=; b=WsVUzf5z66OpvZLVm4wD/srErX E4eBlD0pL8RObK3EoxxWESN4ExpZ7jrN/LPEJRwYoZe02qPHoQ189FD1Mx4EtvyZdexysnsBxbnDV XbO4PG4gxEljgk6V+BcrPtY94LMbJmtGqfnSAvzQ19Q8UhuQYpwqu84FxbdPziRbwcBA=; Received: from vas by admin.sibptus.ru with local (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1j2qZv-0000kK-10 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 13:05:23 +0700 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 13:05:23 +0700 From: Victor Sudakov To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200215060523.GB1482@admin.sibptus.ru> References: <20200214121620.GA80657@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200214141600.GA82559@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200214150126.GA1219@x1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XF85m9dhOBO43t/C" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200214150126.GA1219@x1> X-PGP-Key: http://admin.sibptus.ru/~vas/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 10E3 1171 1273 E007 C2E9 3532 0DA4 F259 9B5E C634 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48KKVD4M9kz3KvZ X-Spamd-Bar: -------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=sibptus.ru header.s=20181118 header.b=WsVUzf5z; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=sibptus.ru; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vas@sibptus.ru designates 2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vas@sibptus.ru X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-8.43 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[sibptus.ru:s=20181118]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-3.33)[ip: (-9.89), ipnet: 2001:19f0:5000::/38(-4.94), asn: 20473(-1.79), country: US(-0.05)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[sibptus.ru:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[sibptus.ru,none]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:5000::/38, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 06:05:25 -0000 --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julien Cigar wrote: > > > > > > > > Not to start a flame war. A purely technical question: what > > > > technological advantages does the modern FreeBSD have over modern L= inux? > > >=20 > > > Sorry, but I find this sort of a chalk vs cheese kind of comparison. > >=20 > > Of course not. When deciding what to use in the next project, you have > > to advocate your choice in front of your superiors and colleagues, and > > your presentation should be well backed up with technical arguments.=20 > >=20 > > When I advocate FreeBSD over Windows, for example, there are some very > > clear and easily defendable technical and economical advantages (open > > source, absence of viruses, BSD license - just to name a few). It is not > > so easy with FreeBSD vs Linux. > >=20 > > For example, the absence of Docker (or analogous technology) for FreeBSD > > is a huge disadvantage. We need to name really superiour features to > > make up for this shortage. >=20 > ZFS, bectl,=20 A great advantage no doubt.=20 > pf,=20 Is it really better than iptables? I just don't know iptables therefore am asking. But there is a number of things I'm unhappy about pf. > MAC,=20 How is it used in the real world? > ports and poudriere,=20 I think we can find similar things in the Linux world. But the separation of the base system and third-party software from ports/packages is a great advantage, I think. > GEOM and netgraph. These are powerful technologies, no doubt, but they are rather tools for FreeBSD developers than something visible to "outsiders" and general users/admins. > rctl, Dtrace support, ... rctl could be important, but Linux has cgroups, they are probably basically the same. >=20 > experience FreeBSD is a lot easier to manage and maintain than any of > the Linux-es I used, especially if you deploy everything with (VNET)=20 > jails, ZFS, and a custom poudriere repository (branch based) From the point of view of maintainance ans aesthetics, I agree FreeBSD looks simpler and cleaner (unless you're trying to use the GUI). I have chosen a workflow similar to yours (ZFS, custom poudriere repository) but bhyve VMs instead of jails. Thanks to ansible, creating and updating those VMs is not very boring. Disk space is cheap nowadays, so I don't becry the overhead of keeping a complete base system in each VM. >=20 > (For Docker I honnestly never understood all the fuss, you can achieve=20 > the same thing with jails and something like Saltstack, so it's not at > all an "huge" disadvantage to me) Well, the advantage of Docker is probably its wide community acceptance and popularity. I think a similar product could have been easily created with FreeBSD jails, mount_union, VNET etc but nobody took the trouble of creating it in the first place. You need a repository with popular apps packaged as jails (base system, nginx, mysql, postgres, php of different versions, exim, drupal...) then this product could become a success (if not too late). --=20 Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN 2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/ --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJeR4oiAAoJEA2k8lmbXsY0Rb0H/18YLAysdI69bPBS9+FvJmJ2 VurK4gLNA+5PyaOXP/oYcROb4liYvLSohO9DdLpwMzL5ANOa+JaEXSg7ZzLrKYFc YeSCdYM3BXpzw74XgkF3OvSmeVfApQLZ4YgiRTK16msC8JeCCbWJb8Txulixp8fl xZyh2XczHhU4EG8lw/3iI0NdeHaHWN0i/0Y/VUBx89r94eH+jdHpmlOmf9hawi2h dCKKjsHC2GA1soeGAzrBVG5vlf4Rb8f2p/xGcz9eUITyJJs6cCeb2PGRkqMSRQ8b DPc3NfuPVY8FddPMDhK/cXMjHmQA5DRv0RFJYRs9XRqTJKgwzXU+cY5fjTSOrn4= =VNtO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C--