Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 02:43:06 -0500 From: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike@blackskyresearch.net> To: Eitan Adler <lists@eitanadler.com> Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: removing CVS in Handbook Updating and Upgrading chapter Message-ID: <1359272644-7225342.63753895.fr0R7h69h018255@rs149.luxsci.com> In-Reply-To: <CAF6rxg=_cih7rvDM7WcdRpksCvh7jF7LzeKE0qeO2RHPDw2JfA@mail.gmail.com> References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301241510470.86451@wonkity.com> <alpine.GSO.1.10.1301251321400.9389@multics.mit.edu> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301251154450.5025@wonkity.com> <1359241802-3572135.75152325.fr0QN9mrI032137@rs149.luxsci.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301261808410.2537@wonkity.com> <CAF6rxg=_cih7rvDM7WcdRpksCvh7jF7LzeKE0qeO2RHPDw2JfA@mail.gmail.com>
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On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > On 26 January 2013 21:05, Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> > >>> Not sure if I need to explain this, but: >>> For a large number of system integrators, building userland/kernel from >>> source is critical. >>> Most of these builds happen before ports/pkg get installed, (if they even >>> do). The current state of SVN, binary packages, ports mechanism changes, >>> and otherwise- all make for some nasty chicken/egg problems for many systems >>> integrators. > > We should certainly be striving to remove references to CVS from as > many places as possible. That, I agree with, excepting fetching src/base for the buildworld;makeworld dance. cvsup for base/src does not even have an end-of-life date yet, and the replacements are either: - not clear - not finished - complex, confused, and difficult for systems integrators (people who buildworld/buildkernel as the stable base underneath everything) > I have no objections to leaving one > (obviously marked) chapter about the old way of doing things. For developers, I can agree that cvsup is totally the wrong tool. Yet, that information should maybe be in the developers handbook, perhaps in the "tools" section: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/developers-handbook/tools.html (If yall' think that's a good idea, I'll happily write up a page to start with) >> This part of the Handbook refers to fetching source for -CURRENT or -STABLE. >> We should not be suggesting CVS to new users who want to run development >> versions of FreeBSD. Oh, I see your perspective, but FreeBSD systems administrators are well accustomed to running -CURRENT and -STABLE, along with -REL and -RELENG, in production. Here's some circumstances admins may build STABLE: - Prepping an environment for upcoming releases - Providing QA/bugs back to FreeBSD *before* REL goes out the door - STABLE may contain a necessary bugfix, security fix, or other necessary feature in a given environment Here's some circumstances admins may build a given moment of CURRENT: - All the same issues from STABLE could warrant some point of CURRENT - some existing code may need to be manually backported quickly in an emergency (I've done my fair share of "grep hacking" to solve crisis situations as an SA) I hope that's understood? Best, .ikehome | help
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