From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 2 22:24:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C53106566B; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 22:24:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD2014FFA2; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 22:24:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F5148A7.4080408@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:24:39 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andriy Gapon References: <20120221143537.Horde.deyFDZjmRSRPQ52pxBIpnLA@webmail.leidinger.net> <4F4BA707.5070608@wasikowski.net> <4F4C3FE7.3040802@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D51CB.2010508@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D5E5D.9040302@FreeBSD.org> <4F4DD288.5060106@FreeBSD.org> <4F4ED889.2070608@FreeBSD.org> <4F500BB9.4040307@FreeBSD.org> <4F5088CA.1090108@FreeBSD.org> <4F510FBD.50008@FreeBSD.org> <4F513B2D.6010809@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F513B2D.6010809@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: stable@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: flowtable usable or not X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:24:41 -0000 On 3/2/2012 1:27 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 02/03/2012 20:21 Doug Barton said the following: >> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our >> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation. > > Do you care to back this up with facts? You mean other than the very few hands that go up whenever we discuss "who is actually using FreeBSD as their desktop?" If that doesn't work for you, look around at the next developer's summit and take note of the overwhelming preponderance of fruit logos. Just looking at the committers, of which we have over 300, only a couple dozen at most have ever identified as actually using FreeBSD as a desktop at my count. Taking the larger development community into account I think the numbers are a little better, but not much. Sure, our strength is servers, and that is not going to change. But how many real-life bugs have I personally uncovered in -current as a result of actually running it (mostly) daily? I'm not the only one, certainly, but if the numbers were flipped and the vast majority of our developers *did* use FreeBSD routinely, how much better off would we be? And before anyone bothers to point it out, yes, I happen to be using Windows at this exact moment. I have some layer 9 work to get done and I need tools that are only available to me in Windows (more's the pity). The sad thing is, judging by the activity on the -ports@ list, the traffic in #bsdports, and just talking to/interacting with FreeBSD users, a lot of *them* are not only interested in FreeBSD as a desktop OS, they are actually doing it. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection