From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 16 21:47:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29651065670 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:47:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15AF8FC0A for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:47:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iea17 with SMTP id 17so5889674iea.13 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:47:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=O5R8860rQX9O5paJX3WBz5N6uV56N2I4dGnbXeta7Xk=; b=po5Visb9slFxQItsp1jCTEHqu/e38DgIfpuif0a6gOnPI9X99llVlD8JBdeUAG5KP+ Gfjc+jwG9KzTWqeKy73s0+l8f75QAxXNarB7wUgbmpe2bzmYCXF2NssEoImd4w/eSMO6 ii09UDwBp+d1a1IYVqMNmtFaAZay2cO752OjuHiM3leSUnqpCYXO3vTQuPF1jpxTMISc 8VbSe1biuGC7twb/PnVqGe7CvuUd17YPYSP2/gsbfzlJq0a7NDENr47pybhWrVA8wog9 fqpcB01odFwt0UunuoFCEA8nN7eyv7qw775BgzW53JbinKgbUW7/ndiXtaMk6+AmDRUm OFag== Received: by 10.50.85.134 with SMTP id h6mr4997372igz.2.1347832077040; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fm8sm13429399igc.8.2012.09.16.14.47.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <505641A0.10606@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:47:53 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201209141601.q8EG1lmf003367@fire.js.berklix.net> <2C4DFA77-E2D8-4DA1-9512-5497ADAF740E@bsdimp.com> <505641A0.10606@FreeBSD.org> To: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnZXjfrDsnbVDsrM7M7gaQfYzAZg3lcHqMh2BSsVeYIEOkR94muchTqY/YQ4uxbMq18rQJ7 Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removing CVS from HEAD X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:47:58 -0000 On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:16 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 09/14/2012 21:39, Warner Losh wrote: >> I think that we've reached the point in this thread that "no clear = consensus exists for the change, therefore the status quo should remain = the case." >>=20 >> All these points and counter points clearly show there's non = consensus, so this should be tabled. >=20 > "I don't think that word means what you think it means." >=20 > Consensus does not mean "absence of opposing views." It means that the > weight of opinion is on one side, and the points raised by those = opposed > have been carefully considered; and either accommodated or discarded = as > less important than the benefits of the majority view. The mere fact > that someone disagrees with a proposed change should not be enough on > its own to scuttle that change. >=20 > In this case the weight is clearly in the "remove it" camp, and the > opposing opinions have been considered, and should be discarded. >=20 > Defining consensus the other way only gets you the least objectionable > changes, which are almost never the best by a purely technical = measure. > Which is not to say that we should _never_ consider other factors, > merely that in a software project one would think that technical merit > really should be the deciding factor in the majority of cases. We're working towards consensus. We weren't there when I sent this out, = and it seems like the folks doing the work have agreed that a few minor = things should be completed first. Oh, and one more thing, I hope you have a nice day. Warner