From nobody Thu Sep 5 21:07:00 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X0BtK3Fssz5Ty5k for ; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 21:13:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ske-89@pkmab.se) Received: from mail1.bemta32.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta32.messagelabs.com [195.245.230.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail1.bemta32.messagelabs.com", Issuer "DigiCert TLS RSA SHA256 2020 CA1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X0BtJ46mTz40Lq for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2024 21:13:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ske-89@pkmab.se) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ske-89@pkmab.se designates 195.245.230.66 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ske-89@pkmab.se X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrCLMWRWlGSWpSXmKPExsVyYCl7ky6r/K0 0g+2bZS22b/7H6MDoMePTfJYAxijWzLyk/IoE1oy5r7uZClq5Kk49uM3cwDiXo4uRi0NIYDqj xOnme4wQzgJGiZcT1rJ0MXJyCAvoSaza85m1i5GDQ0RAXmLBeXuQMIuArsS0/VfYQWwJAQWJL zvmsYLYnAK1EvOmHAez2QREJfZ132UGsXkFTCXevT7ACGILCchIXFp0DKo3WOJ+/3/GCYzcCx gZVjGaFqcWlaUW6ZrqJRVlpmeU5CZm5uglVukm6qWW6panFpfoGuollhfrpRYX6xVX5ibnpOj lpZZsYgR6PqWYrWYH4/o9jfqHGCU5mJREeVVu3EwT4kvKT6nMSCzOiC8qzUktPsQow8GhJMG7 UvZWmpBgUWp6akVaZg4wCGHSEhw8SiK8x3mB0rzFBYm5xZnpEKlTjIpS4rz7pIASAiCJjNI8u DZY4F9ilJUS5mVkYGAQ4ilILcrNLEGVf8UozsGoJMx7DmQ7T2ZeCdz0V0CLmYAWh5jfBFlcko iQkmpg0jDf7ZQREhD6e+k8pn2rlua2nonY9UOrvs5vu3n267dTnu3bz6S++5k6xxVpE4vpPR8 OzL/lzLda5ICKI79j8a//n6s1fld/vmt2LDrl9XKzrmj7P6ohX0+9k77z6IHcw/XVGrMKHlU7 Lfuzkm2izaWaawXbTzVbOQhqS3tp/z2wyzyv7ZJWvf/UVfGlNv0eChJPfe2XRLZ4H1ZaqzChr MjbvjBG9dJTrqAXBe/tld9qZZ/VOaS2LGDp4RUOO0rYfs0+zXF2RVnFIZ3FZevmacbXczvPM/ guZLRhP3P5nAmbnvNKWb/bqzBVd5bBU5WmUqvKV4bxH5Z3FFizsxzlWeYj+m4S243u7+/9Ojc 8UWIpzkg01GIuKk4EAPrnBjn3AgAA X-Env-Sender: ske-89@pkmab.se X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-564.messagelabs.com!1725570821!49652!1 X-Originating-IP: [192.165.7.130] X-SYMC-ESS-Client-Auth: outbound-route-from=fail X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 9.114.1; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 23576 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2024 21:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO PSY-APP020.precio.lan) (192.165.7.130) by server-3.tower-564.messagelabs.com with ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted SMTP; 5 Sep 2024 21:13:41 -0000 Received: from berenice.precio.lan ([172.27.68.201]) by PSY-APP020.precio.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(10.0.17763.1697); Thu, 5 Sep 2024 23:13:40 +0200 Received: from pkmab.se by berenice.pkmab.se with uucp id aa18097 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2024 23:13:40 +0200 (CETDST) Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2024 23:07:00 +0200 (CETDST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] In-reply-to: from "Alan Somers" at Sep 5, 24 12:09:18 pm From: ske-89@pkmab.se Message-ID: <202409052313.aa18097@berenice.pkmab.se> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2024 21:13:40.0799 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B5444F0:01DAFFD8] X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.979]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.708]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:195.245.230.0/23]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[pkmab.se]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:195.245.230.0/24, country:US]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[195.245.230.66:from]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[195.245.230.66:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X0BtJ46mTz40Lq List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Alan Somers wrote: > In fact, of all the C bug fixes that I've been involved with (as > either author or reviewer) since May, about three quarters could've > been avoided just by using a better language. ... > To summarize, here's the list of this week's security advisories, and > also some other recent C bug fixes of my own involvement: After checking several of these examples, I'm wondering what the code would have looked like in some "better language", where those bugs would have been avoided? E.g for the "use after free" or "unitialized memory" examples. To me, several of those bugs seem fairly complex, and not just a question of having bounds checking for arrays or a borrow checker for pointers, or something simple like that. But maybe the bugs could have been detected and prevented if the code would have been forced to be expressed in a completely different manner by some other language? Or what is your vision of how that would be accomplished? You seem to be saying that certain examples would be solved by a better language, and certain ones would not, so I suppose you do have some vision of how that would work. I'm just curious to learn more, since it is not obvious to me, and thus all the more interresting. /Kristoffer Eriksson