From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Feb 19 18:06:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DD22412FC for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:06:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yw1-xc31.google.com (mail-yw1-xc31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48N5JV4lGMz3Lh6 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:06:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-yw1-xc31.google.com with SMTP id z141so511751ywd.13 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:06:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:face:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ABI6UAAQTGdeeVbR/1CbsoIgZgCr91Vg0e41ZGfGJ0w=; b=CGHBlXOBZgLOVdRWrN05kIXC8iCVowMV+sVYcwdY3vNAsFH1gio+uy84RidCRxxDji h1CXf8cezWznMaUclEV36kRlNBx5WI4bto6FqCs4hp7Iv+4awD/XHHhiNdnRV9Z23EMH Mb6KRLc+HHPISycZIerpqfGpEWblapG7KQiN8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:face:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ABI6UAAQTGdeeVbR/1CbsoIgZgCr91Vg0e41ZGfGJ0w=; b=rAn7axgFzopq5meaP+esqyll48clD/K5TQVWC/LiZiwqpjN2tEIQpKYzuNJSmiidoL HQ6iyqUskovQqxhUfg8wLOpSl567qosi8k7ujVD999ductutJlVIQlkGJzX45Y6DhseY qyiBEs1MnkduRE0hXx6ZuVdPBtqMgbkspWGXB1WVGzD8JJcRZ7q9AQQqAzeoQlsSjHOL ZPi3sYCTxQkBOBUIZ/iPInyb1TzRNaDzKlfHmvkyEj5RuBVYHxiQ77yfL5z4PaV9++sZ sVv3VC7t574BV8hKdf5LTrmfmbyjGO17J6ONuDnBzqsyGydJLEor4mtx5NH5eeFk8uhO VYaw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUSFRNO4wlizqTMmt5oKXpLKe481lI6xMQPZO/jl2lJ9KIIvMqc hfkJr7De0IGiDxyupgaZf5fwMmKB4yY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyID5A+kTRAE1Vbpyp2gxmI9Flbv6/XWrk4PRQTxO4vKxVwx0Qg1+aB6Y84HyNn8SjHD50qYw== X-Received: by 2002:a81:490f:: with SMTP id w15mr21122382ywa.372.1582135592738; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o189sm336316ywe.15.2020.02.19.10.06.30 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48N5JQ0hZBz1Vbh for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:06:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:06:28 -0500 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-ID: <20200219130628.457f8953@scorpio> In-Reply-To: References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <85E7C97E-EF8B-4FC7-8EF1-758B7BCBAE90@kreme.com> <20200218183010.5a52441f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200218205940.04917783.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200219052643.7bd90d3c@scorpio> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.3) Face: 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 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48N5JV4lGMz3Lh6 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=CGHBlXOB; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.50 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.50)[ip: (-8.86), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.89), asn: 15169(-1.68), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[250.225.109.174.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:06:35 -0000 On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 11:31:18 -0500, Ed Maste stated: >That's an unfortunate issue, but it's very hard to make progress >without getting an affected machine to an appropriate developer. Personally, Ed, I think your suggestion is absurd. For years I heard the often-repeated statement, “Lock-In,” when referring to MS Products. The far more common, though less mentioned statement of, “Locked Out” was conveniently bypassed. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I wanted to use a piece of equipment or advanced technology but was not able to do so when outside an MS environment. Now, I find that FBSD 12.x will not even install and run on my PC. This cannot be because the technology is too new. 11.x runs just fine. This is obviously a problem with the programming. I have been told by you and others that they need a machine to work on to discover the problem. Seriously, that is BS. It worked before; they broke it when updating. If it had never worked, I might have considered donating a piece of equipment to assist them, but this is obviously not that sort of problem. I have consulted Dell, including a voice conversation with a technician. He, himself, said that he uses Linux on one of his machines. They have never received a problem like I am experiencing on any other OS other then FBSD. I have confidence that the problem will be fixed eventually, either when the problem has evolved to be a nuisance to a much larger audience or by dumb luck. In either case, since it did once work, it is obviously not beyond the scope of the engineers to correct the problem. -- Jerry