43166.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.166]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dF9bj3PjHz3QFQ for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2025 03:02:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from minsoochoo0122@proton.me) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=protonmail; t=1763953341; x=1764212541; bh=N/KuoU5kJe4GlmNPAhKkarDxl2b4bOhhFJkUSVXyjq8=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=dS1qTvepLdPXvN7WNXkmrLVIOzHqQgZ81JCZ2u2B4PJK4HoYH7qdhBvViv2bcWCeb lqlqFWaHWixZstADVWlOo8xF2lH94sRlacp0Hcx8iej+oqM430908Y7a/3Fy5pNBFr sKkrp86OLqNT6CaAKoBQY/v1NJK/ns1GbGlUFE5VEKrViK8izMtVAF979JTk2/Abmq m5zuMtF2HnUYYKOw8ipvuyvJ4Kv3pNCLzvPNZnaG2BB07X73xwpkltZIeblnxz/o2E arG3cWa0eplQ1pxz8Xd2TEfs5AIyE1G1hTUwVCuk3Du7yQxkZURujn1Lo6TAdaYeJQ 5n875drfTxoow== Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2025 03:02:17 +0000 To: Sulev-Madis Silber From: Minsoo Choo Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Future of armv7 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2F44E83A-AEC3-4A36-8A90-1FC8AD377A55@ketas.si.pri.ee> References: <2F44E83A-AEC3-4A36-8A90-1FC8AD377A55@ketas.si.pri.ee> Feedback-ID: 45891198:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 7d30938b08eb31eecddae09c24ac58cae3e37d74 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62371, ipnet:185.70.43.0/24, country:CH] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dF9bj3PjHz3QFQ On Sunday, November 23rd, 2025 at 7:58 PM, Sulev-Madis Silber wrote: > i watch this and i have question! >=20 > why does fbsd support more 32bit arms than 64bit arms? >=20 > if i look under allwinner section, i see 6 32bit socs and 3 64bit socs, w= hy? allwinner has like, what, ~50, 64bit socs?! they come on devboards too >=20 > one of them is h618 which has cheap boards on which has one dev who lost = interest and one potential user with dusty hw. why is it like that? and the= n we plan to remove 32bit arms >=20 > they also still make mips devices, which fbsd doesn't support anymore. th= ose also target low power devices >=20 > i'm not so much pissed of armv7 going but more like where's the aarch64 h= w to move onto? >=20 > bbb has praised for being good hw and i have it too. it doesn't work even= now? and what about it's brother, 64bit one? ti also still makes socs! >=20 > is freebsd something where hw support is added, perfected, and quickly re= moved? >=20 > ok, i vaguely understand the frustration of handholding every different s= pecial snowflake piece of hw but there has to be some solution >=20 > i also never get why whole world revolves around rpi's as they don't make= best nor cheapest boards but i guess those would need support too then >=20 > it would be awesome if fbsd would support arch that's common, be it armv7= , aarch64, riscv64, or nga128 (completely made up 128bit next good arch pla= tform) >=20 > and it would support reasonable set of platforms for reasonable set of us= ecases, be it server, desktop, laptop, tablet, phone, iot, industrial, what= ever Simply saying, cost is the issue. There are so many different arm boards th= at need different code to support. Most contributors buy dev boards to run = their project on them, and porting the OS to those boards is a side quest f= or the project. If someone wants to see devboard support on FreeBSD, they c= an pay professionals or donate the hardware to the foundation. > also when armv7 support is removed i bet ton of people appear and ask why= that decision was made behind their backs because it was >=20 > when i heard how usage stats was taken i was like wait a sec, surveys and= downloads? that's it? that would only happen if people making decisions we= re as far from real life as possible >=20 > people attribute all that to politicans often, decision is made wrong, be= hind one's back, citizen is required to shuffle through ten thousand public= documents to see if he was tricked again, and if (s)he misses it, it's aut= omatically default accepted. later it's told how noone objected. noone even= knew what, when, how to object FreeBSD doesn't send system information collection to the centralized gover= nance like Windows or macOS do. It also doesn't conduct hardware survey lik= e Steam. This is because many use cases of FreeBSD is embedded or systems w= here they cannot join the survey due to security issue (take a look at a pp= c64 thread). FreeBSD is a project maintained by contributors, not corporation. The only = "politicians" in this project are the nine core team members, elected by co= mmitters every two years. Don't have the mindset that FreeBSD contributers = HAVE TO serve all of its users. No one forces users to pay "tax" or serve t= he project through specific actions. Still, we try our best to keep up with= their expectation. Mailing lists exist to hear users' opinions. Yes, I agree with you that our= survey method failed to hear everyone's voice. So here it is: this mailing= thread is our last chance to discuss on this matter, and thankfully, many = people have shown their voice whether they support the removal or not. Free= BSD has always encouraged users to join the mailing list conversations, so = if a user missed this, it is not our fault.